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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 3:45PM #131
Kerplunk
Posts: 198

Chiyo wrote:

It's obvious, you got nothing..


Then I guess our discussion has ended.

But let me make it official, "It's obvious, you go nothing either."   :)

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 3:51PM #132
Free2beme09
Posts: 733

Kerplunk wrote:

I am not talking conversion, I am talking genocide.


I know exactly what your talking about, but I appreciate the clarification! ;)

The drive to destruct other religious groups comes from the fact that there is a lack of agreement, i.e. possible discrimination towards a group who does not believe like the other. Isn't violence a direct way of bullying a group into conversion?

I still find it hard to see a Zen Buddhist bully others who do not share in the same beliefs. Period!

Religion is for those afraid of hell.  Spirituality is had by those who have been there!
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 3:59PM #133
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

Kerplunk wrote:

Are you saying that are practicing the tenets of Buddhism???


There is no Christian "Just War Theory"? I know there is. - Click Here


I know there is no "Just War Theory" in Buddhism... So these Buddhists that you're showing? They are Buddhists. I'm not going to deny that. But no matter whether their cause is supposedly noble or evil, they have betrayed their own scriptures and abandoned wisdom for hatred... Buddhists for Peace, of which I'm a member, has unapologetically said these things are wrong. What are you doing to stand against Christian Terrorism?

There is no Buddhist position or doctrine of "Just War." None. Zero. "Just War" makes no sense in a tradition dedicated to moral decency, non-harming, compassion, and wisdom.


War happens. Buddhism does not deny such facts. It tries to understand how war happens. But Buddhism never accepts or legitimizes war as necessary or "just." One naturally defends oneself when attacked. One may prevent someone from doing harm to others. Neither, however, justify harming the alleged or imagined perpetrator/aggressor.
Kings, rulers, ministers, and governments often fall back on war as a crude means to their ends. This reflects a lack of intelligence, creativity, and courage in solving problems. The ends, even when decent and just, never justify the violence of war.
War is never peace. We often hear that the latest war, and this is repeated with each new war, is fought for the sake of peace. Governments and media claim that war now (over which they shed crocodile tears) will be the way to a more lasting peace. But whose peace? The peace that the victors would supervise, of course. Peace on their terms, enforced on others at gun and missle point. That hypocrisy is built into the rhetoric of war, since almost no one would support war otherwise. So we have Orwellian newspeak: war is peace. Such claims cannot make war just, no more than lies can create truth.

[FONT=Times New Roman]More here; Click me
[/FONT]


the Buddha drew some very sharp lines:


"What is unskillful? Taking life is unskillful, taking what is not given... sexual misconduct... lying... abusive speech... divisive tale-bearing... idle chatter is unskillful. Covetousness... ill will... wrong views are unskillful. These things are called unskillful...


"And what is skillful? Abstaining from taking life is skillful, abstaining from taking what is not given... from sexual misconduct... from lying... from abusive speech... from divisive tale-bearing... abstaining from idle chatter is skillful. Lack of covetousness... lack of ill will... right views are skillful. These things are called skillful."
MN 9



Killing is never skillful. Stealing, lying, and everything else in the first list are never skillful. When asked if there was anything whose killing he approved of, the Buddha answered that there was only one thing: anger. In no recorded instance did he approve of killing any living being at all. When one of his monks went to an executioner and told the man to kill his victims compassionately, with one blow, rather than torturing them, the Buddha expelled the monk from the Sangha, on the grounds that even the recommendation to kill compassionately is still a recommendation to kill — something he would never condone.

More here; Click me


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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 4:03PM #134
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

Kerplunk wrote:

Then I guess our discussion has ended.

But let me make it official, "It's obvious, you go nothing either." :)


And this why the culture of Christian bigotry and violence will never change.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 4:37PM #135
warlordofks
Posts: 3,646
kerplunk. As one who was born, raised, & spent his first 55 years of life being a Christian, being more involved that the great majority of Christians are in the religion, I can honestly say that Christianity is the most dangerous & insidious of all religions. Christians best attribute is that while putting their arms around you & hugging you proclaiming their Love for you, proclaiming how they want to save your soul, proclaiming that you're a evil sinner, telling you that your religion or religious beliefs are evil & wrong while only yours are true, even though there's absolutely no proof of this. Your bible & it's demigodbiblegod not withstanding isn't proof. It's just one text in a long list of religious texts & beliefs. And no truer. No you Christians do all of the above all the while smiling while twisting the knife in your back. That is the true face of Christianity. The one that while proclaiming it's Love, kills homosexuals, bombs abortion clinics, puts out hit list of Doctors providing abortions so that other Christians can kill them with the support of the Christian Community. Your religion supports abuse of children saying that their good Christian Father is saving them from their sins. And when that child prays for relief from the only God that he knows, your God, is told that the answer is no, that there's a good reason for the child to suffer & a lesson to be learned. Yours is a religion who believes it's okay to tell someone who just lost their Mother to breast cancer that their Mother is in hell. Yours is the religion that tells a grieving brother that your God is punishing him by letting his sister be murdered & his Mother to die in order to teach him about turning away & rejecting your religion. No, the Christian religion for the last 2000 years has been one of the most bigoted, dangerous, & evil religions ever developed & has the bloody & violent history to prove it.

I'm sorry Chiyo for ranting on this way my Friend. You're too much a Lady to get down & dirty. Me, I enjoy exposing the truth about Christianity. They can't hurt or harm me anymore than they already have.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 4:49PM #136
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

warlordofks wrote:

I'm sorry Chiyo for ranting on this way my Friend. You're too much a Lady to get down & dirty. Me, I enjoy exposing the truth about Christianity. They can't hurt or harm me anymore than they already have.


No apology necessary, Warlord. Your experiences are valid and no one can take them away from you... I'm sorry they happened to you and words are too small... But those experiences have made you a loving and protective father, a loving and protective grandfather. I envy your children and grandchildren, I wish I could have been as lucky as to have you as my father. And I count my blessings in having you as a friend. :)

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 5:56PM #137
world citizen
Posts: 5,402
Steve1939 ~

Well there were "25,280,100 combatants’ deaths in WWII" so that would mean that there would have to be at least 25,280,101 deaths attributed to the Protestant Reformation.

Sorry I'm a day late in responding.  I appreciate your doing some homework...  The stat I gave was based on the memory of something I read quite some time ago which, I remember at the time, surprised me no end.  Two possibilities come immediately to mind:  different war?  maybe it was only Christian deaths during that war (in comparison)?  I regret any confusion.  Wasn't trying to deliberately mislead anyone.

Regards, the very fallible WC  :)
Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 10:09PM #138
haggaion
Posts: 1,972

Chiyo wrote:

And this why the culture of Christian bigotry and violence will never change.


The problem here is that you were the one who shut down the conversation.  He just responded in kind.

Then you blame him?  Or were you blaming yourself?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 10:26PM #139
haggaion
Posts: 1,972

Chiyo wrote:

There is no Christian "Just War Theory"? I know there is. - Click Here


Ever hear of The Kalachakra Tantra?

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar … _long.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=0toLUw … &ct=result


http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddh … /a/war.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ … ite_note-7


Be careful of throwing stones if your own house is made out of glass.
And said that there was no just war theory out there in Christianity?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2009 - 12:30AM #140
arjun
Posts: 554
I have opened another thread "range of interpretation" to discuss the issue of interpretiations of ible.
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