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Switch to Forum Live View obdience to authority
5 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2008 - 10:53AM #1
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
i have an issue....hey there is a first for everyone
the premise  of "obedience to authority" has been bandied about as a principal of the faith

i want to clearly understand the relationship of obedience to authority as structured within the faith...and i'm not interested in opinions....i want clear text defining who (individuals) and what (institutions) i am supposed to obey....

and where is the safeguard to protect me against oppressors and tyrants, who would like to ASSUME the position of authority?

sorry, i have no intention of  establishing and encouraging blind obedience to a vague concept.
can anyone take a bite out of this one and come up a clear statement ?
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2008 - 2:30PM #2
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
im going to open that up a bit and take back what i said about not being interested in hearing opinion...i'm actuially fine with opinion...as long as opinion can be substantiated with something other than wishful thinking.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2008 - 6:52PM #3
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
no takers?

not even nibble?

then i would suggest to everyone that they themselves do some digging and find out what the chain of command/service (depending on one's perspective is) actually is before they ask anyone to blindly obey.....anything....

myself...until it is clearly defined to my satisfaction...i will follow  what knowledge has been made available to me thro various sources....and apply what ever text i believe is appropiate to any given situation i have to deal with.....and ignore all the would be-authoritaritians
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 2:22AM #4
MrBear
Posts: 426
"...then i would suggest to everyone that they themselves do some digging and find out what the chain of command/service (depending on one's perspective is) actually is before they ask anyone to blindly obey.....anything...." Leaf

Who has asked anyone "to blindly obey.....anything...."  ?

What did they ask them to blindly obey?
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 2:22AM #5
MrBear
Posts: 426
"...then i would suggest to everyone that they themselves do some digging and find out what the chain of command/service (depending on one's perspective is) actually is before they ask anyone to blindly obey.....anything...." Leaf

Who has asked anyone "to blindly obey.....anything...."  ?

What did they ask them to blindly obey?
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 10:24AM #6
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
mr. bear

who? .....ok....i'll bite

i have been a participant on three forums....that present themselves as places where "consultation" is the name of the game....each has it;s own .....uhhhh...culture? where the "unspoken rules" ......you know.....those ones that "we all know" must be  supported and upheld at all costs.....and any infractions are met with swift decisive....and sometimes mob action....

now...consultation.....may be actually occuring, but it is fruitless...unless one believes that the squeaky wheel should always get the grease......and forget the one that has been frozen motionless in time and space due to neglect.

unless alllllll the wheels are greased and attached to the SAME cart/wagon....no motion...either forward or backward is possible.

there isn't one environment that i have visited that doesn't "demand" that i conform to the arbitratry standards imposed by the authority.....even here....strict rules apply and if you and i don't want to play....we are dealt with immediately....

thank God that in my physical environment there is a system in place that determines that i have "rights" too.....and when i get tired of not having any rights on forums...i can either walk away or act to ensure that i am never welcome back, i do that by going for the throat of the authority........:-)

i may have some wolf in me too.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 11:09AM #7
MrBear
Posts: 426
“…"demand" that i conform to the arbitratry standards imposed by the authority...” Leaf

Seems you are objecting to the (broad) Board standards and Moderator policy/whims operating in Baha’i cyberspace……?

I can’t imagine why…I mean….Baha’i community culture and consultative standards ought (by now) be >at least< higher than those of secular or non Baha’i cyberspace…..no?

And now your thelling me that in the real world “there is a system in place that determines that i have "rights"…”……..!!!!????

Heavenstabetsy.

Whoodathunkit.

I’ll bet that decaying Old Word Order “system in place” is actually written down, codified and provides fair hearing in a safe/structured environment

“…i get tired of not having any rights on forums…” Leaf

Ahhhh well…..I sympathise…..but ya gotta remember that nobody agreed wether it was a ball or a stick and you aught never burn your bridges till the early bird has counted the silver linings in one basket….

Such is the nature of Baha’i community wisdom.

“i may have some wolf in me too.” Leaf

That……..you don’t get to choose.
You just get designated.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 12:13PM #8
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
Seems you are objecting to the (broad) Board standards and Moderator policy/whims operating in Baha’i cyberspace……?


  somewhat...but the participants that quietly or loudly support the whims of the “leader” so that no other voice is heard…is also a disturbing trend.  That leader may or may not be the owner or moderator…it could be anyone…including me...
 
I can’t imagine why…I mean….Baha’i community culture and consultative standards ought (by now) be >at least< higher than those of secular or non Baha’i cyberspace…..no?


  No…actually..and that is part of the problem…the assumption that the label “baha” means that the consultation and methods are above reproach or improvement....but forums that carry the name baha attached to them do not necessarily conform to any standards other than the ones that are applied by those that control the environments…they are not lsa’s or sanctioned committees etc….but for some strange reason they thing they can act like assemblies. From where I stand, they are “rogue” environments…all of them.
   
I’ll bet that decaying Old Word Order “system in place” is actually written down, codified and provides fair hearing in a safe/structured environment


  Maybe there is some question as to what is Order…and who gets to establish it...and in what environments...
  in my own home…it is a give and take between two people...balanced? equitible? maybe as much as we have been able to accomplish..i’m still here…and so is he….and we  haven’t killed each other yet…alltho there have been times, and still are, for the both of us….and he does not play by my rules nor I by his.
 
Ahhhh well…..I sympathise…..but ya gotta remember that nobody agreed wether it was a ball or a stick and you aught never burn your bridges till the early bird has counted the silver linings in one basket….
   
  Yup no-one has agreed to anything….but aught not?
  Sometimes burning bridges is actually a good thing to do…
  it allows one to put the past in the past…and move forward.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 1:07PM #9
maidenhair_leaf
Posts: 540
rod

and for your edification "aught never" sounds to my ears like an authorative directive with substance behind it....

that i don't agree with....in case my earlier response does not make that clear to you.
i happen to know what an assumptive close IS...and if the assumption ie: wanting to count silver linings is invalid...then the premise is also invalid and you don't get to close the deal.
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2008 - 4:35PM #10
firestorminitiative
Posts: 498
maidenhairleaf,
just saw this thread after posting in the order i post...

what?? it's not part of the rules that people can pull whatever slight of hand they wish and call it done?
being and from being are the same,
moderator and autocrat (he who has the power to destroy a thing controls a thing...muad'dib in dune),
   "we all know",
the rules are there,
alll that piffle and roo dropping is not the mortar for a staircase to heaven???
   hmmmmm.
    let's see. the Master is infallible at interpreting the Meaning of Baha'u'llah.
   the Guardian is infallible at interpreting the languae of Baha'u'llah, and in protection and propagatin of the Faith.
   the House is infallible in elucidation of the ongoing application of the above.
the House has said no pre-pub review, no board of whatevers on the net.
   numerous members of th Faith thence can be seen to dispbey the House by appoiting themselves as authority.
   :"what is Order…and who gets to establish it...
he who can.
qed.
the decaying old world order gives us alcoa deciding that using the speed of the melting of the greenland ice sheath to power a hydr generator to refine aluminum makes eminent sense. rwanda/darfur/blahbah... yes...the system works so well to protect the future.
will an order prevail?
charlie will tell us.
   at bnut, the metricis revenue by page views.
  how does the Faith, as offered, stand against the 12th churh of left handed snake dancing?
   not as well... and never will.
how wil it stand as architecture for what will replace the 12th churhc of left handed snake dancing?
   ahhh.
   there is a field. people can walk across it, together or not. they can point at things ..or not. they can perhaps, find a ball, a stick, and decide if this has "meaning" in terms of them using them as a bais to act together...or not.
   to pretend that we have advanced beyond that?
charlie laffs.
She Who Weeps...weeps.
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