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Switch to Forum Live View I don't know much about Messianic Judaism but it seems to me that they are Jewish
6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 3:47PM #1
Ilovethelord
Posts: 74
I don't know much about Messianic Judaism but it seems to me that they are Jewish, I don't understand how it's such an insult to be a Messianic Jew. I have Jewish ancestry on my great-grandmothers side (My dad's grandmother) and they converted to Christianity which I am a Christian today but I wouldn't mind being a guest in a Messianic Jewish Synagogue, I'm excited about going and attending one. Wow, L'shana Tova to my Messianic Jewish and Jewish friends and you all are equal and that is great.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 5:04PM #2
Ilovethelord
Posts: 74
Jewish believers and gentile believers in Yeshua share the same truth. Baruch Hashem Yeshua and may all Messianic Judaism followers be blessed for they have accepted Yeshua Ha'mosciach and still are as Jewish as Jewish is, Shalom and Mazel Tov to any new Messianic Jewish converts whether rabbinical Jew or Gentile.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 5:21PM #3
clyde5001
Posts: 3,501
Only Jews can decide who a Jew is.

No Jew can believe that a man is a god. That is absolute blasphemy. Such a belief is prohibited by Torah.

Do you want Jews meddling in Xianity and telling you who is and who is not a Xian Juancho? Because it seems to me that the only real Xians are Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox.

P.S. It's rather tacky to congratulate a new "believer" from Judaism, considering that any Jews who converts to Xianity is dead to their people.
Shema Y'Israel Adnai Eloheinu, Adonei Echad.

Am Y'Israel Chai!

23,298 posts as of 2/27/2009

3,208 after the transition.

A 20,090 difference.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 5:32PM #4
river8101
Posts: 5,544
I consider anyone who believes in the divinity of Iesous the Christ, Messiah, Savior, whatever.  and believes in the divinity of the New Testament to be a Christian, regardless of their denomination.    There are hundreds of different Christian sects all over the world that believe in the validity of the NT.  Each sect believes themselves to be Christian.  They have that right.   

As a Jew I do not have the authority to identify a real Christian, and no other religion has the authority to identify what real Judaism is.   

There is only one Judaism, though there are a few different movements within Judaism, some more conservative than others, some more liberal, but aside from that they are all pretty much the same.  They use the same books.  The TaNaKh and the Talmud.  Jews do not accept the validity of the NT, and none of them believe that Iesous was the Jewish messiah nor regard anything written in the New Testament as part of their religion.

A Jew is one whose mother is a Jew.   A Jew is one whose mother converted to Judaism before they were born, or one who formally studied with a rabbi and/or teacher and converted to Judaism which takes about a year or two.  According to the laws of Judaism, one cannot be both a Christian and a Jew at the same time, because it would be a dichotomy; that is two divisions that contradict each other.
“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 5:54PM #5
Ilovethelord
Posts: 74
Thank you so much everybody, a Messianic Jewish synagogue is by where I live-I have been welcomed to daven on Shabbat with them-L'chaim. I love learning about the Jewish faith and am excited to see the best of both faiths in a Jewish setting-Messianic Judaism is so wonderful it seems like.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2008 - 12:01PM #6
SeventhDayGirl
Posts: 1,374

river8101 wrote:

I consider anyone who believes in the divinity of Iesous the Christ, Messiah, Savior, whatever. and believes in the divinity of the New Testament to be a Christian, regardless of their denomination. There are hundreds of different Christian sects all over the world that believe in the validity of the NT. Each sect believes themselves to be Christian. They have that right.

As a Jew I do not have the authority to identify a real Christian, and no other religion has the authority to identify what real Judaism is.

There is only one Judaism, though there are a few different movements within Judaism, some more conservative than others, some more liberal, but aside from that they are all pretty much the same. They use the same books. The TaNaKh and the Talmud. Jews do not accept the validity of the NT, and none of them believe that Iesous was the Jewish messiah nor regard anything written in the New Testament as part of their religion.

A Jew is one whose mother is a Jew. A Jew is one whose mother converted to Judaism before they were born, or one who formally studied with a rabbi and/or teacher and converted to Judaism which takes about a year or two. According to the laws of Judaism, one cannot be both a Christian and a Jew at the same time, because it would be a dichotomy; that is two divisions that contradict each other.



Jews are unique in the respect that being a Jew means that nationality and religion can define a Jew.  No other faith or religion can claim this distinction.  What a great privelege!

Shalom.

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6 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2008 - 2:20PM #7
clyde5001
Posts: 3,501

SeventhDayGirl wrote:

Jews are unique in the respect that being a Jew means that nationality and religion can define a Jew. No other faith or religion can claim this distinction. What a great privelege!

Shalom.



Yes, it's great to be a Jew. You should escape from idolatry and try it! :D

Shema Y'Israel Adnai Eloheinu, Adonei Echad.

Am Y'Israel Chai!

23,298 posts as of 2/27/2009

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A 20,090 difference.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2008 - 6:30PM #8
river8101
Posts: 5,544
LovetheLord


"I don't know much about Messianic Judaism but it seems to me that they are Jewish, I don't understand how it's such an insult to be a Messianic Jew.

It is not an insult to follow a religion of your choice.  I don't know where you got such an idea.

For the most part only the child of a Jewish mother is Jewish.  The exception is Reform Judaism, which permits the child of a Jewish father to be Jewish provided the child is raised in the Jewish faith.  These are biblical commands.     

In cases of marriage and certain rituals in Orthodoxy  and some in the Conservative movements,  a person who had a Jewish father but not a Jewish mother may be excluded as Jewish.  Many people have a Jewish relative in their family tree, but if that person was from the father's side or converted out of the Jewish faith or was not from the mother's side, the person is not considered Jewish unless the person in question converted themselves.   If a true member of the Jewish people leaves Judaism to follow a faith that contradicts the laws and traditions of Judaism, they are no longer considered Jewish, regardless of how they regard themselves.   

It is unimportant to us how those of other religions interpret the Jewish faith.  We ignore them, as they are not educated in Judaism or even considered Jewish and have little or no understanding of Judaism or the Jewish scripture.   They interpret Jewish scripture totally differently from the way Jews interpret it, which is from the original Hebrew.  There is a huge difference between a Semitic language and an Indo European language, such as Greek, Latin, English, etc.  which the Jewish bible was translated into by Christians.  Their bible is the Septuagint.   

A Jew may follow Judaism as well as part of another religion providing the practices and beliefs of that religion do not clash with  the teachings of Judaism.  Since Christianity completely contradicts Judaism a Christian may not be a Jew unless they convert,  and a Jew may not be a Christian unless they convert, according to Judaism and Christianity.

Judaism is first and foremost a people, and always has been. Think of it like this.  If you are an American, born in America, you are an American citizen.  But if you were born in a different country, and come to live in America you are still not an American no matter how long you live here unless you go through the process of becoming an American citizen.   There are certain rules and guidelines, which a foreigner must go through to become an American citizen.   It takes a certain amount of years and study to do this, or marriage to an American, to an American citizen.  (Even then, I think you must be married a certain amount of years.)   Judaism is the same (except for marriage).  A person of a different faith cannot become a Jew through marriage.  In fact few rabbis will marry a Jew to a non Jew.   Before you can join the Jewish people you must study the guidelines and precepts of Judaism and appear before a Jewish court.  There you will be questioned to see if you are serious and understand what it means to be part of the Jewish people, which isn't easy.   You must go to the mikvah, a ritual bath, and finally you must commit  your allegiance to the Jewish people.  You must also renounce any other religion which conflicts with Judaism.  There are other religions in the world, which do not have any major conflicts with the teachings of Judaism, but belief in the NT is not one of them.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2008 - 11:14PM #9
SeventhDayGirl
Posts: 1,374

river8101 wrote:

LovetheLord
It is not an insult to follow a religion of your choice. I don't know where you got such an idea.



When did I ever say such a thing as this?  I have never conveyed this to you.

river8101]For the most part only the child of a Jewish mother is Jewish. The exception is Reform Judaism, which permits the child of a Jewish father to be Jewish provided the child is raised in the Jewish faith. These are biblical commands.



Where is this written in the Bible?  wrote:

For the most part only the child of a Jewish mother is Jewish. The exception is Reform Judaism, which permits the child of a Jewish father to be Jewish provided the child is raised in the Jewish faith. These are biblical commands.[/quote]

Where is this written in the Bible?  Can you provide a verse or two please?

river8101]It is unimportant to us how those of other religions interpret the Jewish faith. We ignore them, as they are not educated in Judaism or even considered Jewish and have little or no understanding of Judaism or the Jewish scripture. They interpret Jewish scripture totally differently from the way Jews interpret it, which is from the original Hebrew. There is a huge difference between a Semitic language and an Indo European language, such as Greek, Latin, English, etc. which the Jewish bible was translated into by Christians. Their bible is the Septuagint.



Yes, I am familiar with the differences.  wrote:

It is unimportant to us how those of other religions interpret the Jewish faith. We ignore them, as they are not educated in Judaism or even considered Jewish and have little or no understanding of Judaism or the Jewish scripture. They interpret Jewish scripture totally differently from the way Jews interpret it, which is from the original Hebrew. There is a huge difference between a Semitic language and an Indo European language, such as Greek, Latin, English, etc. which the Jewish bible was translated into by Christians. Their bible is the Septuagint.[/quote]

Yes, I am familiar with the differences.  The original Hebrew language is much different than English.  There are many different meanings for a single word, depending on how it's used in it's context.  I'm sure the translators of the King James Bible had a difficult time with this.  Even the Septuagint is different than the entire King James.  But most Christians read all of it, including the Torah, or Tenakh, the Psalms and Prophets, and the Gospels and Epistles.

river8101]A Jew may follow Judaism as well as part of another religion providing the practices and beliefs of that religion do not clash with the teachings of Judaism. Since Christianity completely contradicts Judaism a Christian may not be a Jew unless they convert, and a Jew may not be a Christian unless they convert, according to Judaism and Christianity.



I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but the first Christians were Jews who recognized and followed the Messiah when He walked the earth.  wrote:

A Jew may follow Judaism as well as part of another religion providing the practices and beliefs of that religion do not clash with the teachings of Judaism. Since Christianity completely contradicts Judaism a Christian may not be a Jew unless they convert, and a Jew may not be a Christian unless they convert, according to Judaism and Christianity.[/quote]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but the first Christians were Jews who recognized and followed the Messiah when He walked the earth.  Even His disciples went to the lost sheep of the house of Israel first.  Jeshua was Himself a Jew from the lineage of King David.  I wouldn't want to be a physical Jew if it meant I had to "give up" my beliefs in Christ.  Oh well.  I'm content with being a spiritual Jew.

river8101]Judaism is first and foremost a people, and always has been. Think of it like this. If you are an American, born in America, you are an American citizen. But if you were born in a different country, and come to live in America you are still not an American no matter how long you live here unless you go through the process of becoming an American citizen. There are certain rules and guidelines, which a foreigner must go through to become an American citizen. It takes a certain amount of years and study to do this, or marriage to an American, to an American citizen.



Yes, this is what I meant by the term "nationality."
wrote:

Judaism is first and foremost a people, and always has been. Think of it like this. If you are an American, born in America, you are an American citizen. But if you were born in a different country, and come to live in America you are still not an American no matter how long you live here unless you go through the process of becoming an American citizen. There are certain rules and guidelines, which a foreigner must go through to become an American citizen. It takes a certain amount of years and study to do this, or marriage to an American, to an American citizen.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I meant by the term "nationality."

river8101](Even then, I think you must be married a certain amount of years.) Judaism is the same (except for marriage). A person of a different faith cannot become a Jew through marriage. In fact few rabbis will marry a Jew to a non Jew. Before you can join the Jewish people you must study the guidelines and precepts of Judaism and appear before a Jewish court. There you will be questioned to see if you are serious and understand what it means to be part of the Jewish people, which isn't easy. You must go to the mikvah, a ritual bath, and finally you must commit your allegiance to the Jewish people. You must also renounce any other religion which conflicts with Judaism. There are other religions in the world, which do not have any major conflicts with the teachings of Judaism, but belief in the NT is not one of them.



Have you done all these things?  wrote:

(Even then, I think you must be married a certain amount of years.) Judaism is the same (except for marriage). A person of a different faith cannot become a Jew through marriage. In fact few rabbis will marry a Jew to a non Jew. Before you can join the Jewish people you must study the guidelines and precepts of Judaism and appear before a Jewish court. There you will be questioned to see if you are serious and understand what it means to be part of the Jewish people, which isn't easy. You must go to the mikvah, a ritual bath, and finally you must commit your allegiance to the Jewish people. You must also renounce any other religion which conflicts with Judaism. There are other religions in the world, which do not have any major conflicts with the teachings of Judaism, but belief in the NT is not one of them.[/quote]

Have you done all these things?  So you wouldn't consider yourself to be Jew by nationality and religion?  Although I did see your profile page where you stated you were an evolutionist, so I guess you don't even believe in the One who claimed you so long ago???  Will a rabbi marry a Jew and someone who claims no faith (or belief) in Yahweh?  At least Christians have that much.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 6:53PM #10
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,253

Oct 8, 2008 -- 3:47PM, Ilovethelord wrote:

I don't know much about Messianic Judaism but it seems to me that they are Jewish, I don't understand how it's such an insult to be a Messianic Jew. I have Jewish ancestry on my great-grandmothers side (My dad's grandmother) and they converted to Christianity which I am a Christian today but I wouldn't mind being a guest in a Messianic Jewish Synagogue, I'm excited about going and attending one. Wow, L'shana Tova to my Messianic Jewish and Jewish friends and you all are equal and that is great.



 


Amen to that.

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