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6 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2008 - 9:04PM #1
mawil
Posts: 4
its my understanding that the minor peace can only come about through the actions of people, once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)

but that world peace will not come about until women are given and women accept an equal rule in local and world affairs.

the catch 22 is that women will not be given full equal role in bahai affairs until 1,000 years from now, as there is a barring of women from the universal house of justice, until god introduces the next manifestation/messenger. (not free will)

Or simply fa-get-a-bout the minor peace for the next 1,000 years, ain't gonna happen.

One of these two rulings must be in error, or i am missing something?
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2008 - 8:49AM #2
compx2
Posts: 426
Hi Mawil.

"its my understanding that the minor peace can only come about through the actions of people"

I remember reading that the Greater Peace was rejected when the kings and rulers rejected Baha'u'llah's teachings.  Now we have to settle for the Lesser Peace.

"once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)"

I don't remember reading anything like that in Baha'i teachings.  So let's stop here until you can explain to me where you got that from.  The rest of what you say is predicated on the above, and I don't believe the above is a Baha'i teaching.

--Kent
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2008 - 10:05AM #3
mawil
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=compx2;804764]Hi Mawil.

"its my understanding that the minor peace can only come about through the actions of people"

I remember reading that the Greater Peace was rejected when the kings and rulers rejected Baha'u'llah's teachings.  Now we have to settle for the Lesser Peace.

"once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)"

I don't remember reading anything like that in Baha'i teachings.  So let's stop here until you can explain to me where you got that from.  The rest of what you say is predicated on the above, and I don't believe the above is a Baha'i teaching.

--Kent[/QUOTE]

To answer your question,
http://www.bahai-religion.org/history_peace.htm
These dire predictions were counterbalanced with prophesies that the Lesser Peace would nevertheless be established after such a dark and gloomy hour. In a pilgrims’ note he is reported to have said: Model of the five planned buildings of the Arc on Mount Carmel“it is essential that the youth of today study deeply the Faith as they will usher in the Most Great Peace. The Lesser Peace will be established within this century. The Most Great Peace in the next century.”107 He also linked the coming of the Lesser Peace with the maturation of Baha’i administration and the completion of the buildings of the Arc on Mount Carmel.

http://bahai-library.com/index.php5?fil … ions_peace
Re: Attainment of the Unity of Nations and the Lesser Peace
Introduction:
The Bahá'í Writings about world peace envisage the Most Great Peace coming as the culmination of two distinct processes which unfold gradually over a lengthy period. One of these processes concerns the growth and development of the Bahá'í community, with the evolution of the Administrative Order and its efflorescence in the World Order of Bahá'u'lláh. The other process, the subject of this memorandum, is associated with developments in the wider society, notably the attainment of the unity of nations and the establishment of the Lesser Peace.

http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/rg/rg.biblio11.html
Bahá'ís believe that the cessation of war and the establishment of world peace are inevitable steps in human social evolution. The Bahá'í writings describe the next step in social development as the establishment of the lesser peace, in which the nations of the world will establish international mechanisms to prevent future wars. 'Abdu'l-Bahá predicts that the foundation for the lesser peace will be laid before the end of the twentieth century. However, the Bahá'í notions of peace transcend a simple abolition of war. The end of war will constitute the lesser peace, but Bahá'ís believe that a higher, most great peace, will one day be realized. This stage represents the true maturity of humankind, when the world will fully live by spiritual principles and become the "kingdom of God on Earth."


to further affirm the conflict of parts of faith,
Lights of Guidance - 427
"Abdul'l-Baha anticipated that the lessor peace could be established before the end of the twentieth century.
http://www.bahai-religion.org/history_peace.htm
He is also quoted as replying to the question of whether permanent peace would be established soon by saying: “it will be universal in the twentieth century. All nations will be forced into it.”98
stop

case of conflict regarding women,,,
LOG - 2072: "the house of justice, however, according to the explicit text of the law of god, is confined to MEN;"  Abdu'l-Baha,,,,BUT, LOG - 2077: "All mankind are the creatures of one god - "Man" is a generic term appling to all humanity" abdu'l-baha

case of conflict regarding peace
LOG - 2090: "the emancipation of women and the achievement of FULL EQUALITY is one of THE MOST important pre-requistes for peace.

i tire of bringing you up to date, please do your own research...
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2008 - 4:07PM #4
compx2
Posts: 426
I see that you want to discuss women and the Universal House of Justice.  Other than that I don't see any point to your post.

Is there something I am missing?

--Kent
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2008 - 8:48PM #5
mawil
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=compx2;805348]I see that you want to discuss women and the Universal House of Justice.  Other than that I don't see any point to your post.

Is there something I am missing?

--Kent[/QUOTE]

You must be missing something for I responded to your lack of knowledge with quotes and sources yet you seem to feel threatened for some reason. the words are not mine, i simply showed them to you and you don't want to see the confusion of the words which are at odds with one another. perhaps you should step back and let others in to try and respond to my initial query, please, you seem over your head. i'm not here for argument nor debate, the quotes speak for themselves and they are contradictory in an obvious way to me and i hoped someone with some depth of knowledge in the faith could help me either see how i'm mistaken or that indeed the words are contradictory.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 7:29AM #6
compx2
Posts: 426
Hi Mawil.

You responded with quotes that have nothing to do with your issue.


You said: "once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)"

I said that is not a Baha'i teaching, to my knoweldge, and then you go on and on about women and the Universal House of Justice.   I see no relation between the two issues.

"...you seem to feel threatened for some reason."

Not at all.  I would think your personal comments about me will get your posts rejected.  I cannot talk about how you seem for the same reason.

"...the quotes speak for themselves"

Certainly, they just don't speak to your issue, unless your issue is different from what you represent.

--Kent
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 10:53AM #7
compx2
Posts: 426
Hi Mawil.

"These dire predictions were counterbalanced with prophesies that the Lesser Peace would nevertheless be established after such a dark and gloomy hour. In a pilgrims’ note he is reported to have said: Model of the five planned buildings of the Arc on Mount Carmel“it is essential that the youth of today study deeply the Faith as they will usher in the Most Great Peace. The Lesser Peace will be established within this century. The Most Great Peace in the next century.” He also linked the coming of the Lesser Peace with the maturation of Baha’i administration and the completion of the buildings of the Arc on Mount Carmel."

I don't need to explain to you what status 'Pilgrims' notes" have to Baha'is, do I?  This is not Baha'i scripture, and the very reason it has the status of pilgrims' notes, many Baha'is would argue, is that it is not true.

"Re: Attainment of the Unity of Nations and the Lesser Peace Introduction: The Bahá'í Writings about world peace envisage the Most Great Peace coming as the culmination of two distinct processes which unfold gradually over a lengthy period. One of these processes concerns the growth and development of the Bahá'í community, with the evolution of the Administrative Order and its efflorescence in the World Order of Bahá'u'lláh. The other process, the subject of this memorandum, is associated with developments in the wider society, notably the attainment of the unity of nations and the establishment of the Lesser Peace."

This explains the process the Baha'i Writings say is necessary to attain the Most Great Peace.  It does not follow your explanation, to wit: "once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)"

"Bahá'ís believe that the cessation of war and the establishment of world peace are inevitable steps in human social evolution. The Bahá'í writings describe the next step in social development as the establishment of the lesser peace, in which the nations of the world will establish international mechanisms to prevent future wars. 'Abdu'l-Bahá predicts that the foundation for the lesser peace will be laid before the end of the twentieth century. However, the Bahá'í notions of peace transcend a simple abolition of war. The end of war will constitute the lesser peace, but Bahá'ís believe that a higher, most great peace, will one day be realized. This stage represents the true maturity of humankind, when the world will fully live by spiritual principles and become the "kingdom of God on Earth."

This one is much clearer about what constitutes the Greater and Lesser Peace.  Still, however, your assertion is not included in this quote either, that "once people have created an over whelming peaceful situation on earth, then god will give people the great peace, (free will)".

Your other quotes, like the three above, do not apply to your assertions.

--Kent
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 1:54PM #8
firestorminitiative
Posts: 498
ur missing the wholething...yeah.
the "lesser peace" is a material, political, economic circumstance.
the world moves towards it becuase Baha'u'llah @ Work Does That.
   the greater peace is the manifestation of the reality that God is One.
and btw, let's strt at the brginning... there is no such thing as "quasi-authoritive" whatevers in the Faith. especially from townsend et al.
   or..lol...jacqsy-baby...
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 1:55PM #9
firestorminitiative
Posts: 498
compx,
yeah...ur missing the provenance....which is nottt a reagion of france.
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