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6 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2008 - 2:47PM #41
iknownot
Posts: 64
eeyore,

It all sounds rather ominous.  But 'leave': what is there to leave?  You just don't go to a church anymore?  I appreciate that Sea Org membership means highest level of privilege and responsibility.  Someone wishing to stop it and act properly might actually jump through those hoops.  Otherwise, what is there to leave?  It seems to me that what they are specifying is that proper Scientologists in good standing should shun the departing person.  That would make it THEIR problem, not the problem of the departing person.

At least the departing Sea Org member doesn't get keel-hauled.(?)

{I must remember to ask a question about that long term contract in Sea Org.  I think I understand the OT concept well enough.}

Please help me out: RPF? Rwandan Peace Force?  No, unlikely.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2008 - 4:37PM #42
iknownot
Posts: 64
I found something.
RPF->Rehabilitation Project Force?
Merciful heaven!
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2008 - 4:44PM #43
PoorEeyore
Posts: 409
[QUOTE=iknownot;695641]eeyore,

It all sounds rather ominous.  But 'leave': what is there to leave?  You just don't go to a church anymore?  I appreciate that Sea Org membership means highest level of privilege and responsibility.  Someone wishing to stop it and act properly might actually jump through those hoops.  Otherwise, what is there to leave?  It seems to me that what they are specifying is that proper Scientologists in good standing should shun the departing person.  That would make it THEIR problem, not the problem of the departing person.

At least the departing Sea Org member doesn't get keel-hauled.(?)

{I must remember to ask a question about that long term contract in Sea Org.  I think I understand the OT concept well enough.}

Please help me out: RPF? Rwandan Peace Force?  No, unlikely.[/QUOTE]

I know!  Im with you.  I thought the same thing:  Just stop going. lol

But what I have read and been told by several former members is that generally if you have been a member for some time you likely dont have much money, you no longer have much if any contact with friends and family, and you likely work with or for other CoS members. 

I've talked to many former seaorg members.  I dont think any of them would have described it as a "privelege". lol 

I went back to look at the story of the woman I mentioned.  She claims that she would move and they would "find" her.  They would come to her house or work to "handle" her.  She would change addresses and phone numbers many times and they would always end up calling her and emailing her umpteen times a day.   She has had 2 homes burn to the ground, both electrical.  So I dont know what that is about.  It is entirely possible it is a coincidence but none-the-less has made it harder.  She claims she had health problems and wasn't "allowed" to see docs or take any medicine. 

She said that she has finally "blown" for good.  And she claims there has been harrassment.  The biggest thing is she says "someone" sent a letter to President Bush in her name. 

So, if this is all true, I can see that it may not be as simple as "just stop going".   

Keep in mind she was never a seaorg member.  For them it is even more difficult naturally. 

I dont know if they apply the "routing out' procedure to others besides seaorg members.  It sounds like it's a joke.  lol   

Keel hauling.  Had to look it up.  lol   Maybe on the freewinds? Y'know if the blue asbestos doesn't punish you enough.  :D

The Rehabilitation Project Force, or RPF, is a controversial program set up by the Church of Scientology Sea Organization, intended to "rehabilitate" members who have not lived up to the Church expectations or have violated certain policies. As part of this program, and in addition to the application of Scientology procedures, members do manual labor tasks around Sea Org bases. There have been some reports of overwork and mistreatment at RPF facilities, and the program can take years to complete

Here is a definition I found on a support site for ex sea org members:  RPF - Rehabilitation Project Force. When a Sea Org member has done something considered particularly bad, they are isolated from the rest of the Sea Org members in the RPF program. People on the RPF are not allowed to walk (they run everywhere), are not allowed to speak to another Sea Org member unless spoken to, and spend most of their time doing manual labor. This is a very controversial program. Scientologists call it "rehabilitation", critics call it "slave labor".

widipedia article on RPF -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilita … ject_Force

What has been described to me by former sea org members is a society where you have no real friends from the outside, you sleep very little, you get auditing which basically works as a lie detector and if you are sick or unhappy then something is wrong with you and it is going to take more work and effort to fix it.  And you are clearly told that you signed a contract and if you leave you will have to pay for all the "free" services you have received.   

Check out the posts by someone with the screen name "bug" on this forum.  She was the first one who told me about some of these things and got me to look into it more. 

In fact, come to think of it, I think she started this thread.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2008 - 5:26PM #44
iknownot
Posts: 64

I dont think any of them would have described it as a "privelege".

OK.  I just supposed it was something highly desired and assiduously worked for.  That wouldn't necessarily continue to be the case once getting signed aboard.

"free services" - HA! :D That's the way to turn me off.  Things in my incoming mail that shout FREE get trashed immediately.  I don't like WON either. :p

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 11:23AM #45
PoorEeyore
Posts: 409
[QUOTE=iknownot;694494]What does "leaving the Church of Scientology" mean?

Is there a formal procedure, like that of the Latter Day Saints (Mormon) Church, for offically resigning?[/QUOTE]

My posts in answer to this question have been deleted by administration as violating forum rules.  I am sorry, it really was not my intention to do so.

My conclusion is that your question cannot be answered without violating forum rules.  Other than to say:  yes there is a formal procedure and it is called "routing out"

Also posting links to any sites that describe the process would violate forum rules. 

So there is not much anyone of us can do for you here. 

Eeyore

wikipedia is my friend.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 1:10PM #46
fluffygirl
Posts: 191
To be a member and leave the church of Scn (aka "CofS") means to leave, to quit. This may or may not involve saying something to the church, it may not. Depends on what the person wants to do.

However, having said that, I will point out that:

1) It is a high crime to PUBLICLY depart CofS.
(ethics penalties for high crimes generally amount to an expulsion and a declaration that the person is "suppressive" which means other members are not allowed to talk to him or her- ever. Any other member. Ever.)

2) Someone who is on staff is under contract. CofS makes the process of leaving staff and breaking contract rather involved. Leaving without permission can result in

repeated phone calls
visits
or even
expulsion

3) A lot of people who leave CofS do so quietly, drifting away.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 3:32PM #47
iknownot
Posts: 64
Eeyore, Host wasn't quite quick enough. :)
I haven't mastered Beliefnet email adding contacts yet, or I would send you a detailed PM.  iknownot
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 3:56PM #48
iknownot
Posts: 64
Let me summarize a little.  The store-shopper/curiosity-seeker that visits a COS public establishment, browses books,videos,posters of the founder,etc. is just a customer.  When someone forks over their own cash for one of the courses,consultations,services,etc., the person is still just a preclear who is buying.  Going beyond the clear level on that chart is where things might get sticky, since a case manager is involved and you must be deemed qualified to go on.  As long as you provide your own dough you are simply acceptable or not acceptable, nothing more.  BUT, once you accept help by signing one of those staff contracts, the story definitely changes.

Am I getting this?
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 6:13PM #49
PoorEeyore
Posts: 409
[QUOTE=iknownot;699281]Let me summarize a little.  The store-shopper/curiosity-seeker that visits a COS public establishment, browses books,videos,posters of the founder,etc. is just a customer.  When someone forks over their own cash for one of the courses,consultations,services,etc., the person is still just a preclear who is buying.  Going beyond the clear level on that chart is where things might get sticky, since a case manager is involved and you must be deemed qualified to go on.  As long as you provide your own dough you are simply acceptable or not acceptable, nothing more.  BUT, once you accept help by signing one of those staff contracts, the story definitely changes.

Am I getting this?[/QUOTE]

I unfortunately am really not qualified to answer this.  Not having personal experience with it but also not having it described to me very clearly.  Hopefully someone with more knowledge with help you with this. 

Im not sure but I guess this gets down to something I am wondering to:  At what point does someone go from  being interested in scientology to being a member of the CoS? 

And with CoS and also Freezone, what is the point where one can correctly say:  I AM a scientologist? 

What I can tell you from talking to members and former members of CoS is that you can be a member of CoS and not be "on staff" (seaorg member).  So you can be a member and not sign a billion year contract.   The only way I've ever heard of anyone getting "free" services from CoS at any level is by joining seaorg and signing the contract.   

It's not as if becoming a seaorg member is the goal.  None of the celebrities that I've heard of ever became staff members and yet some of them are on the highest levels. 

From what has been described to me--and I am not criticizing--people generally join seaorg to get free services in exchange for working.  I have seen some who seem to have done it in a desire to do more to help.  So there may be several reasons to join seaorg and sign the contract, but I haven't seen anyone describe it as something to help them work the bridge or go up levels other than the fact that it would make it more affordable. 

I hope that a member will come on and explain it better.  I am just giving you info that I have heard.

eeyore
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 6:38PM #50
fluffygirl
Posts: 191
A Scn'ist is someone who uses Scn in his or her life and who considers him or herself to be one. Some people would be, say, taking an intro course and they're just checking it out. They may not consider themselves to be Scn'ists. Some people might fall madly in love with the creed and immediately consider self to be a Scn'ist. It's like any other ology, do you consider yourself to be a Christian/Buddhist/Jew/etc? Did someone have to tell you that you were?

I will also add that when people get expelled (as I was) the "declare" states the person is an ex Scn'ist. I actually wrote a letter to them saying it's not their call to make. I know what my creed is.
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