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7 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2008 - 2:39PM #1
Truth27
Posts: 523
Hi,

It looks like these two religions have won in Africa.  Soon everyone will be just like their conquerers.  And just like in Europe after it was conquered by Christianity/Rome, we'll start in fighting and nothing will be accomplished until ANOTHER outgroup is encountered (perhaps aliens) to place as the lower minority and/or common enemy.

Peace.
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7 years ago  ::  May 08, 2008 - 11:23AM #2
Agnosticspirit
Posts: 9,244
Please share your thoughts of other indigenous beliefs in Africa, I'm interested!

--- peace,

AS
Tribalism, ethnocentricism, racism, nationalism, and FEAR is the Mind Killer... >:(

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7 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 3:26PM #3
Truth27
Posts: 523
Greetings,

In order to understand tendencies in African religion, it is important to understand the demographic history of this region.  Modern humanity (ie anatomical humanity as we know it) originated in East Africa ~200,000 years ago.  However, there is evidence suggesting that this population remained relatively small and sedentary until at most ~65,000 years ago.  Following this period, there is evidence that some humans left Africa.  Others stayed and spread throughout the continent.  Those who stayed populated southern, eastern, and (periodically) Saharan Africa.  Saharan occupation was sporadic because this vast region went through cyclical dry and wet periods such that it was only habitable during periods of abundant moisture.  These fertile ages tended to last for thousands of years.  So people cyclically occupied the Saharan region for millenia, only to be ousted to surrounding areas once things started drying up.  It is likely that the first Africans were medium brown rather than dark brown skinned; similar to the Bushmen (Khoisan) of South Africa.  However, the occupants of the Sahara, a region that is very near the equator and populated by UV light-reflecting sand dunes, may have developed darker skin.  Given the cyclical nature of the Saharan climate, it shouldn't be surprising that darker skinned people may have repeatedly been expelled from this region over the ~65,000 years since people started to spread out from East Africa.  The most recent exodus was initiated ~7,000 years ago.  It ended ~2,000 years ago, with a completely dry Sahara.  Coincidentally, it was during this time that the Niger-Congo language family developed. 

Specifically, about 5,000+ years ago, Africans were forced from the intensely sunny regions of the then fertile Sahara to places along the Nile (ie the Sudan and Egypt) as well as to West Africa.  Some of these former Saharan occupants (those of the East) spoke Nilo-Saharan languages.  These are the very dark skinned individuals associated with the Sudan.  Their dark skin is a testiment to how long they held out in trying to stay in the desertifying Sahara (the reflection of from the sun onto the sand intensified the UV that they were exposed to).  Something similar occurred in West Africa (although perhaps not for as long of a duration).  Hence most West African derived people tend to have dark skin.  The overwhelmingly predominant West African language group is the Niger-Congo family.  ~2,000 years ago, members of this language group broke away from West Africa to successfully populate the Southern and Eastern parts of the continent.  This major migration explains why ~85% of sub-Saharan Africans now speak (West African derived) Niger-Congo languages (~600 million people, ~1514 languages).  It also explains the predominance of a phenotype typically associated with sub-Saharan Africa (dark skin) even though this trait has manifested itself in most African regions for ~2,000 years (ie following the West African migration into these regions). 

In anycase, I have articulated all of this so that the tendencies of African religion can be better contextuallized.  Language is a vehicle for culture in many instances.  Hence it follows that, given that the typical African is of West African descent originally, typical African religion derives from this megalanguage group as well.  Therefore, I will initiate my discussion of African religion by emphasizing the traditions from this region.  Furthermore, since African Americans also happen to be West African derived, one may associate the legacy of West African spirituality visible in the Americas (ie Voodoo, Santeria, etc) with this region. 

(to be continued)...   


Partial Souce:

http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/september/niger.html
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2008 - 8:12PM #4
Truth27
Posts: 523
Hello,

I've been doing a bit of research on religion in Africa since my last entry.  It seems that the continent as a whole is now predominantly either Christian or Mulsim nominally (although many still integrate traditional practices).  The breakdown is about 50:50....

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/afrorelg.htm

I've also read that a major reason why Africa remained underdeveloped and thus on par with places like Papua New Guinea (before colonialism) is because the soil in both New Guinea AND Africa is piss poor in terms of producing the huge surpluses necessary to support the large numbers of people needed to have a strong, sustainable statehood.  Furthermore, disease and unpredictable weather were obstacles.  Thus, there just weren't enough people to support huge 'civilizations' given equivalent technology to that of other ancient regions.  The major reason why, unlike New Guinea, the continent of Africa is often vilified as inferior (unreasonably IMHO) for it's 'lack of ancient culture' is because of its association with slavery.  Period.  The people in New Guinea look African and had comparable pre-colonial development to Africa, yet they aren't viewed as inferior.  Just different......It's interesting.   

Anyway, the above is also a possible explanation for why Africa never produced a world religion.

Peace.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2008 - 10:33PM #5
HinduGuy
Posts: 373
Don't give up yet Truth, with the advent of the internet and the power of the computer, now you can reach a lot more people with your ideas. You have given yourself a good name, Truth, as a Hindu, I believe Truth is above God. Seek the Truth and you will find God.

One of the things that you notice with christianity and Islam is that they are Autocratic faiths. Their "God' shouts mine is the only way or else! Each talks of a judgement day, when everyone else gets killed. I guess the christian god kills everyone not a christian and the muslim god will do the same, together they will kill everyone. Then you realize that they are actually praying to a King, not a God. There was a futuristic movie sometime ago, this people called nacromongers take over other worlds and make people submit to their God or else! The movie says they are evil people, well how are they different from christians and muslims?

Interesting discussion with a christian proselytizer the other day. He started off with the usual, you are going to hell bit. I said, are you a catholic? He answered no, and I said then you must be going to hell too, because I hear that's what they say, only they will be going to heaven? That caught him offguard. they are wrong, he says. I then said well how about muslims? Aren't only muslims going to heaven? How about mormons? Aren't only mormons going to heaven, everyone else goes to hell?

He clearly got frustrated and he barked well what do you believe in? You go to heaven and everyone goes to hell? I replied, in Hinduism there is no hell. God is no saddam husain, she is no torturer. All good souls go to heaven even atheists!

I would ask you to keep asking questions. Ask questions about why the earth is 5,000 years old when clearly science tell us it is far older. Ask how can God be like us, why does he need legs and hands in space? Does he breath thru his nose? Where's the air? Does he eat? If he is male, then does he have male genetials like us? Are women inferior? Clearly if God is like us, then he must be someone from an alien planet, who came to earth. That's the only explanation why God would look like us. So christianity is the first star-trek religion in the world!
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 04, 2008 - 9:47AM #6
Relates7
Posts: 1,060
[QUOTE=HinduGuy;652102]Don't give up yet Truth, with the advent of the internet and the power of the computer, now you can reach a lot more people with your ideas. You have given yourself a good name, Truth, as a Hindu, I believe Truth is above God. Seek the Truth and you will find God.

One of the things that you notice with christianity and Islam is that they are Autocratic faiths. Their "God' shouts mine is the only way or else! Each talks of a judgement day, when everyone else gets killed. I guess the christian god kills everyone not a christian and the muslim god will do the same, together they will kill everyone. Then you realize that they are actually praying to a King, not a God. There was a futuristic movie sometime ago, this people called nacromongers take over other worlds and make people submit to their God or else! The movie says they are evil people, well how are they different from christians and muslims?

Interesting discussion with a christian proselytizer the other day. He started off with the usual, you are going to hell bit. I said, are you a catholic? He answered no, and I said then you must be going to hell too, because I hear that's what they say, only they will be going to heaven? That caught him offguard. they are wrong, he says. I then said well how about muslims? Aren't only muslims going to heaven? How about mormons? Aren't only mormons going to heaven, everyone else goes to hell?

He clearly got frustrated and he barked well what do you believe in? You go to heaven and everyone goes to hell? I replied, in Hinduism there is no hell. God is no saddam husain, she is no torturer. All good souls go to heaven even atheists!

I would ask you to keep asking questions. Ask questions about why the earth is 5,000 years old when clearly science tell us it is far older. Ask how can God be like us, why does he need legs and hands in space? Does he breath thru his nose? Where's the air? Does he eat? If he is male, then does he have male genetials like us? Are women inferior? Clearly if God is like us, then he must be someone from an alien planet, who came to earth. That's the only explanation why God would look like us. So christianity is the first star-trek religion in the world![/QUOTE]

Response:  As a Christian I agree with you that when you find Truth, you will find God.  However, I do not believe that the Truth is above God.  I believe that the Truth is God.  We believe that just as there is one Truth, there is one God. 

The Bible states that humans are created by God in God's image, so we are like God, not that God is like us.  While there is some disagreement as to just what this means, most Christians I think understand this to mean that God gave to humans the divine abilities to create, to reason, and to love. 

God wants us to use these abilities to help one another, not for selfish reasons.  Therefore God rewards those who do right with heaven where love and peace reign, while those who choose to live selfishly go to hell where everyone lives that way. 

Whereas scientific questions are important, the Christian faith deals primarily with problems of relationships.  How do we work together with our neighbors to solve the problems of community?  As can be plainly seen in all nations around the world there is much to be done to create a world where all are brothers and sisters, and love and peace reign.  This does not mean that Christians have all the answers, but I think that we understand the problem and to solving it. 

Love and Peace,

Relates
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 05, 2008 - 10:04PM #7
wontgetfooledagain
Posts: 5,472

Relates7 wrote:


Therefore God rewards those who do right with heaven where love and peace reign, while those who choose to live selfishly go to hell where everyone lives that way.



No.. according to the Christian faith.. Heaven is for those who believe in the correct god.. and hell is for those who don't.  It has nothing to do with what you actually 'do' with your life.


. This does not mean that Christians have all the answers, but I think that we understand the problem and to solving it.



Well.. considering the history (not to mention the present..) of Christianity, I would say that Christianity doesn't have a clue...

Rob

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2008 - 11:23AM #8
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

wontgetfooledagain wrote:


Well.. considering the history (not to mention the present..) of Christianity, I would say that Christianity doesn't have a clue...

Rob



A "photo" of what Christianity looks like in present-day U.S.A. according to the Evangelical Barna Group (a Christian version of Gallup Poll).


[QUOTE]
Young Americans today are more skeptical and resistant to Christianity than were people of the same age just a decade ago, says a new study.

Negative perceptions toward the Christian faith have outweighed the positive as a growing percentage of younger Americans associate with a faith outside Christianity.

Only 16 percent of non-Christians aged 16 to 29 years old said they have a "good impression" of Christianity, according to a report released Monday by The Barna Group. A decade ago, the vast majority of Americans outside the Christian faith, including young people, felt favorably toward Christianity’s role in society,

Young people have an even lesser positive impression of evangelicals. Only 3 percent of 16- to 29-year-olds who are not of the Christian faith express favorable views of evangelicals. In the previous generation, 25 percent of young people had positive associations toward evangelicals.

Common negative perceptions among non-Christians is that present-day Christianity is judgmental (87 percent), hypocritical (85 percent), old-fashioned (78 percent), and too involved in politics (75 percent).

More of the article here; LINK
[/QUOTE]

Lately, it seems like the thing Christianity has been excelling at is internecine warfare and self-destruction. :confused:
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 11, 2008 - 2:35PM #9
PeaceLoveandUnderstanding
Posts: 116
Both faiths are to blame on conquering and converting the people to Islam and Christ- I hope all the Muslims and Christians of Africa return to their native religions and shame on Islam for spinning the truth. Both faiths are to blame equally, I can understand Egypt being Islamic but the rest of North Africa was forced into Islam by the sword. I think the same goes to much of Africa being Christianized by missionaries. Leave Africa alone for the sake of peace, whether you're a Muslim or Christian Missionary and maybe there would be peace in Africa if two out of three Abrahamic Religions didn't kill, judge and convert African Tribes into the two religions that don't belong in Africa. And for Somalia and the Somali people, do some research you are all Africans who used to follow Tribal Religions-what good has Islam brought Somalia with Sharia Law.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 4:07PM #10
Perry10
Posts: 28
That all religions have long histories of extreme violence a mayham.Why???
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