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7 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 2:32PM #11
Aveverumcorpus
Posts: 1,002

Christ07 wrote:

I'm not a vegetarian. Meat's delicious!!!:D




Hmmm, eats meat and doesn't worry, but taking a drink and all of a sudden, it's a health issue.:rolleyes:

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7 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2008 - 9:12PM #12
Christ07
Posts: 4,891
[QUOTE=Aveverumcorpus;443330]Hmmm, eats meat and doesn't worry, but taking a drink and all of a sudden, it's a health issue.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

He..... It's because I like my brain cells, and alcohol is much more dangerous than meat, except for tainted meat, which in that case... thank God it's always someone else who eats the mad cow meat and I find out about it on t.v. I used to smoke weed and drink, and take exstasy every now and then...I've been there and done that, god changed my heart.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2008 - 10:38AM #13
DevynsGma
Posts: 152

Aveverumcorpus wrote:

Hmmm, eats meat and doesn't worry, but taking a drink and all of a sudden, it's a health issue.:rolleyes:



I must agree with you, Ave. There appears to be a heirarchy of dietary no-nos: meat seems to be universally tolerated although not universally indulged, coffee can still raise eye-brows but is not discussed behind an indulgers back as often (me thinks) but still less acceptable than meat, but alcohol is still far from OK (though less far from partaken of than most would admit)

I wonder how it is that we have sorted out our tolerance levels in this way?

I suppose I can add copious amounts of sugar to the list of acceptable food groups.

I'm not accusing or confessing. Just observing.

And curious.

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7 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2008 - 9:51AM #14
sincerly
Posts: 4,052
Test:

The World's Greatest Need.--The greatest want of the world is the want of men,--men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by its right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.--Education, p. 57. (1903)

I see we are back in business.
Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2008 - 8:10PM #15
Aveverumcorpus
Posts: 1,002

sincerly wrote:

Test:

The World's Greatest Need.--The greatest want of the world is the want of men,--men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by its right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.--Education, p. 57. (1903)

I see we are back in business.



Praise be to Helen.  Seems her pedestal just got another inch higher...:cool:

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7 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2008 - 8:10PM #16
Aveverumcorpus
Posts: 1,002

sincerly wrote:

Test:

The World's Greatest Need.--The greatest want of the world is the want of men,--men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by its right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.--Education, p. 57. (1903)

I see we are back in business.



Praise be to Helen.  Seems her pedestal just got another inch higher...:cool:

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7 years ago  ::  May 05, 2008 - 5:03PM #17
abbysenia
Posts: 117
I went out with my cousin the other day, and he ordered prime rib rare.  It looked like a pink gelatinous blob of pink on his plate... It was soo light I thought it was pork!  I personally thought it was repulsive myself.  I couldn't believe he ate it.  I did my best to avert my eyes from his plate.  Ave, is that the way it's supposed to look?  I always ask for my steak well done, no blood for me, thank you.  But then you have the problem of people not knowing to how to cook it well done but keep it moist and juicy.

Anyway, coincidentally, if you would like some GOOD beef, try this place called Fogo De Chao'
It's a Brazillian Chucarria, and they are only in select cities around the globe.  They are the best.

The question was about why we Adventists promote vegetarianism...

This is because we allude from our reading of Genesis that the original diet of man was vegetarian and that meat was only introduced after the great flood.  Some may find it interesting to know that EGW gave various reasons for not eating meat.  In addition to more widely reported health reasons, she also wrote about the ethical reasoning to...it's just not as widely reported.  Later in the Bible it is alluded that GOD attempted to return the children of Israel to a meatless diet by feeding them Mana.  However, the story goes that they BEGGED for meat and he rescinded to their cries and sent quails.  It is in the Adventist mindset that GOD's original plan for man was not to kill in order to sustain himself.  The original plan was eternal life for all creation and not just man.  Even the sacrifice was for the cleansing of sin, and sin was not part of the original plan either.  Science has caught up with this view, and generally it is believe that man is mainly a herbivore and not designed for the consumption of meat.  It is also generally acknowledge that a meat BASED diet may not be the best diet for most people specifically and mankind in general.

The principle of Vegetarianism is espoused in Adventism.   However, you may be dismayed to find that many if not a majority of us do not practice vegetarianism and of those of us that do, many don't practice it correctly or purely.  Many substitute sweets(cakes, pies and other pastries) in stead of meat.
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7 years ago  ::  May 05, 2008 - 5:43PM #18
scubadiver
Posts: 291
Did you know that those who only eat vegetables are considerd weak.

Romans 14:2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.

Are we training up weak Christians by teaching them to eat only vegetables.

Now as far as clean and unclean animals, that was for the purpose of identity. God wanted to separate a people from all the onther nations so He had them eat differently, plant differently, sow clothing differently and He even had their live stock separated. This is not for the Christian for Christ has broken down that wall of separation.

Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews yet he was convinced by the Lord Jesus Christ that there is nothing unclean.

Romans 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

God Himself told Peter to eat unclean animals.

The kingdom of God is not in what we eat or what we drink.

Romans 14:17  for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

All food is lawful for us but not all food is helpful.

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
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7 years ago  ::  May 08, 2008 - 5:33PM #19
abbysenia
Posts: 117
I had a long scholarly retort...hit the backspace and it's gone...  I guess it wasn't supposed to be here...

I'll just leave a polite rebuttal....  I disagree with Scuba's conclusion...and feel that more independent study on the matter would be beneficial.  I will give a hint, that  of Jewish Theologians and Christians Theologians, I have yet to see one come up with a indisputable reason for or against consumption of unclean animals and why GOD gave this distinction.

Reason given by men...
Cleanliness/health
Cult/pagan worship(implied by scuba)
Only for the Jews.

Why these fail...

1. There are some so called unclean animals that are not carnivorous, and appear to be basically as clean and no more unhealthy to eat that some clean animals(Example why is a Cow cleaner than a Camel or Rabbit and all or herbivores?)

2. There are some clean animals that ARE used in Pagan worship, while there are some unclean animals that are NOT used in Pagan worship(Cows were sacred to some people of the area(The GOD Molech was a cow with a man's body but the Jews were permitted to eat cow, I don't think the pig was worshiped or used in worship by many people).

3. Many (NOT ALL) of the food practices which were thought to be just for the Jews are practiced by Muslims, Orthodox/Coptic Christians, and Indigenous people of the historical areas surrounding Palacestine even extending as far east as India THEN and TODAY(Muslims, Indians, Indigenous people in the area generally do not eat pig meat.  Next time you visit an Indian or Ethiopian restaurant ask why they do not eat or serve swine's flesh) .

4. Some of the food practices were for all Israel, some for special portions of the population, some for visitors and sojourners, and some for ALL people that simply came in to contact with the Jews (There are passage which say if an animal was found dead it was not to be eaten but in certain circumstance the stranger COULD eat it.  Then there's the Nazarene ordinances).
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7 years ago  ::  May 08, 2008 - 8:15PM #20
spudette
Posts: 959
Abby, I think that what we need to look at is why God originally instructed the human race to eat onlygrains, fruits and nuts, then vegetables. Definitely it was for reasons of health, After the Flood, He permitted man to eat certain animals (termed "clean"), and we see that the human life span rapidly became shorter and shorter. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that eating meat wasn't the best thing for humans. But humans sank deeper and deeper in sin, and so theeir lifespan needed to be shortened, but still God's plan was to save the race. In order to do that, He needed them to have a clear mind so they could comprehend His requirements and His law. One thing about humans, is that they like to eat, right? How do you celebrate anything? With a lot of fancy foods, which are mostly not the healthiest, How do you feel after a heavy meal? I feel sluggish in body and mind.

There are some animals that are more prone to disease than others. The rabbit is one of them. In marine life, the first to die from excessive pollution are shellfish. Some other fish I really don't know why God pronounced them unclean, but from what I learned about pigs and shellfish, I decided to trust God with everything else as well. Camels probably don't taste very good, if you judge by their smell. If you think pigs stink, you've never smelled anything really stinky. But my guess is, God has other reasons for us not to eat camel.

I have never, NEVER, heard of anything being for the Jews only. That's an excuse people use when they want to disobey God's instructions. Look at it this way: God raised up a people, the Jews, to teach the rest of the nations His Good News of salvation for all who would trust Him. If this people were to be the teachers, why would God make rules just for them? What credibility would they have if they didn't teach by example as well as by word? No, it's always the other way around. Gentiles don't want to obey a certain rule, so they say the rule was for the Jews only.

Scuba, I want to clarifgy some things you said in your post # 15:

(1) Not all people who are vegetarians are considered weak. That would depend on why they do it. If they do it because they believe vegetarianism to be a condition for obtaining salvation, then yes, they are weak. If they do it for health purposes only, then they aren't weak (You mean spiritually, right?)

Romans 14:2 is used by people who want to justify their eating unclean animals. Actually the verse refers to all things THAT GOD HAS CREATED FOR HUMAN FOOD. It doesn't refer to unclean animals.

"All food is lawful, but not all food is helpful" is another thing people use when they want to eat things not meant for food. God's view of food is all that He created for Human consumption. Our idea of food is anything at all we decide tastes good, regardless of God's opinion on the subject.

"God wanted to separate a people from all the onther nations so He had them eat differently, plant differently, sow clothing differently and He even had their live stock separated."
Why do you suppose God wanted a people separate from other nations? because the whole world had lost track of God's principles. So He raised Himself a special people, but not to keep them forever apart and different. He wanted them to learn from Him, then to teach the rest of the world what He, God, had taught them. Otherwise, He would have given them a land isolated from the rest of the world. Instead of that, He gave them a land that all the other nations crossed when conductimg business, so that the chosen people could have contact with them> How can you teach people you have no contact with?

"Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews yet he was convinced by the Lord Jesus Christ that there is nothing unclean."

Here again, nothing is unclean that was created by God for food. When you get to heaven, be sure to ask Paul if he ever considered eating pig.

"God Himself told Peter to eat unclean animals."

Not so. You are taking a few words out of context. The story is about a vision Peter had concerning teaching the gospel to Gentiles. Please do read the whole story.

"The kingdom of God is not in what we eat or what we drink."

Well, sometimes I think what we eat or drink have something to do with whether we will enter the Kingdom of God:

"Prov 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler,
And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise.
NAS

Or how about this one?
"Isa 5:11-12
11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning that they may pursue strong drink;,
Who stay up late in the evening that wine may inflame them!
12 And their banquets are accompanied by lyre and harp, by tambourine and flute, and by wine; But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the LORD,
NAS

Isa 5:22-26
22 Woe to those who are heroes in drinking wine,
And valiant men in mixing strong drink;
23 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,
And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right!
Isa 5:24
24 Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble,
And dry grass collapses into the flame,,
So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust;,
For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts,
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 On this account the anger of the LORD has burned against His people,
And He has stretched out His hand against them and struck them down,
And the mountains quaked; and their corpses lay like refuse in the middle of the streets.,
For all this His anger is not spent,,
For all this His anger is not spent,,
But His hand is still stretched out.
26 He will also lift up a standard to the distant nation,
And will whistle for it from the ends of the earth;
And behold, it will come with speed swiftly.

Does all this sound like what we drink is not important to our acceptance into the Kingdom of God?

"1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor DRUNKARDS nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
NAS
The emphasis is mine. I guess what we drink does have some importance to God.

What I wanted to emphasize here is that the Kingdom of God is not made of these things, but the way we use them or abstain from them does influence our acceptance into the Kingdom.
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