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6 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2008 - 1:22PM #51
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
Well said.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2008 - 4:44PM #52
Wiscidea
Posts: 2,319
[QUOTE=allthegoodnamesweretaken;417343]What do you think the state of the world would be if traditional ancestral religions had not been done away with?[/QUOTE]

My remarks are pure speculation...

(1) There would still be strict enforcement of local religious laws, but far fewer crusades to convert others or the religious justification of genocide.

(2) Slightly more tolerance of the diversity of human behavior, since there would be entire communities demonstrating that life is just fine if we don't  all believe the exact same things.

(3) We would be slightly more technologically advanced. The large monotheistic traditions have a nasty habit of suppressing rational thought by burning libraries or individuals.

(4) We would would have more philosophical traditions to draw from for inspiration or coping with new problems... a diverse philosophical portfolio is better for making it through crises.

(5) We would have a more interesting historical record to examine. For example, it is tragic that a certain group of very religious people did all they could to destroy Buddhist temples and scripture when they arrived in India... to the point where Buddhism disappeared from its homeland for centuries.

It is possible that the older religions would have been used to justify war and genocide, but I view it less likely. Overall, earlier people appeared more tolerant of different belief systems... as long as you followed the LOCAL rules. I might be very wrong. But this is my current view.

That said... the worship of Yahweh appears to be an example of a traditional ancestral religion run amok... a local deity originally no more powerful that any other local spirit. Perhaps it was only a matter of time before someone decided their god was THE god.
"Some people claim that there's a woman to blame. But I know it's my own damn fault."

Jimmy Buffet (Margaritaville)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2008 - 4:52PM #53
Wiscidea
Posts: 2,319
The only aggressive Buddhists I'm aware of were the one's who helped recruit kamikaze pilots for the Japanese air force during WWII. Which just goes to show a person that, given a leader with delusions of grandeur, even the most benign belief systems can be perverted and used to inflict great harm. It does not bode well for the future of humanity.

I'd swear human beings are all too capable of taking the most loving and peaceful religions and turning them into tools for hating and killing others.
"Some people claim that there's a woman to blame. But I know it's my own damn fault."

Jimmy Buffet (Margaritaville)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2008 - 4:44PM #54
Wiscidea
Posts: 2,319
[QUOTE=allthegoodnamesweretaken;417343]What do you think the state of the world would be if traditional ancestral religions had not been done away with?[/QUOTE]

My remarks are pure speculation...

(1) There would still be strict enforcement of local religious laws, but far fewer crusades to convert others or the religious justification of genocide.

(2) Slightly more tolerance of the diversity of human behavior, since there would be entire communities demonstrating that life is just fine if we don't  all believe the exact same things.

(3) We would be slightly more technologically advanced. The large monotheistic traditions have a nasty habit of suppressing rational thought by burning libraries or individuals.

(4) We would would have more philosophical traditions to draw from for inspiration or coping with new problems... a diverse philosophical portfolio is better for making it through crises.

(5) We would have a more interesting historical record to examine. For example, it is tragic that a certain group of very religious people did all they could to destroy Buddhist temples and scripture when they arrived in India... to the point where Buddhism disappeared from its homeland for centuries.

It is possible that the older religions would have been used to justify war and genocide, but I view it less likely. Overall, earlier people appeared more tolerant of different belief systems... as long as you followed the LOCAL rules. I might be very wrong. But this is my current view.

That said... the worship of Yahweh appears to be an example of a traditional ancestral religion run amok... a local deity originally no more powerful that any other local spirit. Perhaps it was only a matter of time before someone decided their god was THE god.
"Some people claim that there's a woman to blame. But I know it's my own damn fault."

Jimmy Buffet (Margaritaville)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2008 - 4:52PM #55
Wiscidea
Posts: 2,319
The only aggressive Buddhists I'm aware of were the one's who helped recruit kamikaze pilots for the Japanese air force during WWII. Which just goes to show a person that, given a leader with delusions of grandeur, even the most benign belief systems can be perverted and used to inflict great harm. It does not bode well for the future of humanity.

I'd swear human beings are all too capable of taking the most loving and peaceful religions and turning them into tools for hating and killing others.
"Some people claim that there's a woman to blame. But I know it's my own damn fault."

Jimmy Buffet (Margaritaville)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2008 - 8:15AM #56
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571
[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;968633]Not obviously far from the truth, just (as written) too broad to make the point I was striving for. So let me rephrase this in reference to Christianity.

The Christian faith that supposes itself to be the 'one and only true' faith would probably, has and continues to oppose science whenever a scientific conclusion refutes or contradicts what is considered to be a revealed truth from God. Given that Christianity in its breadth doesn't always agree on what are those revealed truths, not all Christians tend to be involved in such disputes.

That 'whenever' leaves a great deal of science that remains acceptable within a Christian framework or that is perceived to fall outside of a Christian framework. Which also means that Christians can establish universities dedicated to academic pursuits including the sciences and contribute to medical science without those contributions being 'because they were Christians'.  With respect but if that is what you are implying, then that I would then consider to be a statement that is obviously far from the truth.

C.H.[/QUOTE]


   I know of lots of science that was advanced *because* of a Christian worldview. Our local heart center, a Catholic hospital, has a mission statement proclaiming its duty to ease suffering through research "as an extension of the healing ministry of Jesus Christ". Not that uncommon. Kepler said that "'the heavens declare the glory of God." Jame Prescott Joule "It is evident that an acquaintance with natural laws means no less than
an acquaintance with the mind of God therein expressed."  Louis Pasteur "The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator...Science brings men nearer to God."
    It may be less than common knowledge here but investigating the Universe is a form of worship. Look into the Vatican Observatory whose motto ends with "understanding of ourselves, the universe, and God". It has one of the largest non university telescopes in the world and is well respected the world over.

     But that wasnt my counterpoint. You said a religion which believes itself the only true religion would oppose science. I dont know who you are speaking of. Leaving out heretical nutters like MAry Baker Eddy there is no basis for connecting Christianity with an opposition to science.It  If there were the world would be a much more backward place.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 25, 2008 - 12:08AM #57
LeahOne
Posts: 16,415
Galileo.......QED
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 25, 2008 - 8:40PM #58
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

LeahOne wrote:

Galileo.......QED




That pretty much sums it up!  :D

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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