Karma_Yeshe_Dorje wrote:

G'day John_T_Mainer:

snicker snicker snicker.  That says it all about you right there KYD.  The only drug you hold up as abuseable is caffeine!

I absolutely don't know why you are not taken more seriously.

Really.

Shihulud: I have never accused you of doing drugs, I have no knowledge of your practices, either sacred or pharmaceutical, and would not presume to judge an individuals practice without clear knowledge.   I have known those who used traditional practices that included some traditional drugs in that context, and been impressed by their dedication and wisdom.  I have also known people who slapped together a ritual to surround their drug use and pretend it was something other than their regular Friday night tune out.  Honestly, they didn't earn the same respect.

I will never deny that their are some sacred uses of some drugs, nor will I ever pretend that some drug users like to dress their addiction up in pretty clothes and demand we pretend to be impressed.

I offer mead at symbel, so could hardly take the stance that drugs have no ritual useages, but at the same time I understand the same alcohol in the mead can be abused by an alcoholic as nothing less than a tool for self destruction.  The proof is in the use, not the tool itself.

John_T_Mainer:

snicker snicker snicker. That says it all about you right there KYD. The only drug you hold up as abuseable is caffeine!

I absolutely don't know why you are not taken more seriously.

You have used a personal attack as a discrediting tactic.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

~Wikipedia~

The expression discrediting tactics in politics refers to personal attacks against a public figure intended to discourage people from believing in the figure or supporting their cause

~Wikipedia~

Hi everyone:

Thompson’s water soluble Kava contains Kava root extracted
with 100% water.

~Vitamin Select~

The dose (60 mg) is low--so I expect that the placebo effect must be wonderful! :D

A kava pill usually has anywhere from 60 mg to 150 mg of kavalactones. By comparison the typical bowl of traditionally prepared kava beverage has around 250 mg of kavalactones.

~Wikipedia~

ShamanMystic:

u wake up & not be under their hypnotic infuence.

a false reality that has been pulled over their eyes

~IMDb~

Gospel of Thomas

Thanks for reminding me.

whatever gets one back

Yeah.

Dreamtime

This is very important here! I recommend Where the Green Ants Dream.

Solstice

We make a big bash for Yulefest! :)

Mandala

I have that; we crave symmetry!

Redfrog777:

I like your avatar. If you need help, give a hoy.

Feb 21, 2009 -- 7:57PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

...If you've never experience the "Sacred Land" in all it's Awe and Wonder at least once while fully awake and aware your missing the whole point.... Until one has been there 1st hand & "knows" 1's world is dead .inanimate ie not fully living ie disenchanted... Cutoff from the source of the living water. living a life of theory... 

For a shamanist, I think you're right -- if they've never experienced the living realms of spirit they are missing the point. 

Feb 21, 2009 -- 7:57PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

... I say at least a one time usage of an Entheogen in heavy dosage while being watched over by experienced loving friend is in order...

This, I do NOT agree with.  Few people in our culture have a friend experienced enough to guide them safely through such experiences, should anything go wrong.  And entheogens are not necessary. 

Those same realms are available to almost anyone through shamanic spirit journey.  I have spoken with the spirit of a stone, I have run as a wolf beside Wolf and drunk cold water beside him from a stream, I have taken crow form and played and tumbled in the air with Crow, I have joined with the spirit of tree and felt my roots deep in the earth, my branches swaying in the wind, and I have been carried by a spirit of the wind to experience different forms of weather first-hand.  I have been taught and guided by Ancestors, animal spirits, stones, plants and many others, and I have both received healing and done work with the spirits for the healing of others and healing of the Earth.  The living, spirit aspects of reality are available to us all.  We do not need to have the doors of our minds flung open by entheogens when we can learn to open them ourselves, in ways that give us immediate access to wise and trustworthy spirit allies.

I'm glad for you that you have a community and structure that give you fulfilling experiences through entheogens.  But for most people raised in contemporary cultures, there are better ways to enter spirit realms.

Bright blessings on your path,

Kay

Albert Hofmann's problem child had an important cultural impact!

"Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann, who discovered the drug lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) while looking for medically useful derivatives of the ergot fungus, is also credited as the first to experience an acid trip.

Hofmann took his first trip, in 1943, by accident, apparently as a result of accidentally spilling the chemical on his fingertips in his Basel laboratory. He went home and "sank into a not-unpleasant condition", a dreamy state in which he saw psychedelic images.

His second experience was less agreeable: he deliberately took a dose that he believed to be light, but which led to intense effects while riding home on his bicycle - an episode that has become notorious in recreational pharmaceutical circles.

While the chemical may have uses in psychiatry, its impact to date has arguably been more cultural than medical."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16735-eight-scientists-who-became-their-own-guinea-pigs.html?full=true