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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2009 - 12:32PM #511
John_T_Mainer
Posts: 1,658

Karma_Yeshe_Dorje wrote:

G'day John_T_Mainer:


snicker snicker snicker.  That says it all about you right there KYD.  The only drug you hold up as abuseable is caffeine!

I absolutely don't know why you are not taken more seriously.

Really.

Shihulud: I have never accused you of doing drugs, I have no knowledge of your practices, either sacred or pharmaceutical, and would not presume to judge an individuals practice without clear knowledge.   I have known those who used traditional practices that included some traditional drugs in that context, and been impressed by their dedication and wisdom.  I have also known people who slapped together a ritual to surround their drug use and pretend it was something other than their regular Friday night tune out.  Honestly, they didn't earn the same respect.

I will never deny that their are some sacred uses of some drugs, nor will I ever pretend that some drug users like to dress their addiction up in pretty clothes and demand we pretend to be impressed.

I offer mead at symbel, so could hardly take the stance that drugs have no ritual useages, but at the same time I understand the same alcohol in the mead can be abused by an alcoholic as nothing less than a tool for self destruction.  The proof is in the use, not the tool itself.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2009 - 4:13PM #512
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634

Redfrog777 wrote:

leftuncheacked:

“Nature and humanity will always clash.”

I don’t think that this is the case at all. Nature is always in balance. Humanity might have a difficult time with this. But it is nothing personal. Nature will never clash with humanity. The clash is humanity’s inability to live in harmony and balance with its given environment. When we stop trying to impose our beliefs on to nature and begin to simply live within the body of the environment we will return to that balance.

Let us not forget, Homo sapiens have been on the planet for around 200,000. It is only in the past 250-300 years have we really gotten out of balance with the environment. So what were we doing right for the first 199,750 years?


I am reading the backposts of this thread and just wanted to give a thumbs up to this post, Redfrog. EXACTLY.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2009 - 6:39PM #513
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 12,503
John_T_Mainer:

snicker snicker snicker. That says it all about you right there KYD. The only drug you hold up as abuseable is caffeine!

I absolutely don't know why you are not taken more seriously.


You have used a personal attack as a discrediting tactic.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.


~Wikipedia~

The expression discrediting tactics in politics refers to personal attacks against a public figure intended to discourage people from believing in the figure or supporting their cause


~Wikipedia~

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 10:42PM #514
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136
Thank you Hart.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 23, 2009 - 7:46AM #515
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 12,503
Hi everyone:

Thompson’s water soluble Kava contains Kava root extracted
with 100% water.


~Vitamin Select~

The dose (60 mg) is low--so I expect that the placebo effect must be wonderful! :D

A kava pill usually has anywhere from 60 mg to 150 mg of kavalactones. By comparison the typical bowl of traditionally prepared kava beverage has around 250 mg of kavalactones.


~Wikipedia~

ShamanMystic:

u wake up & not be under their hypnotic infuence.


a false reality that has been pulled over their eyes


~IMDb~

Gospel of Thomas


Thanks for reminding me.

whatever gets one back


Yeah.

Dreamtime


This is very important here! I recommend Where the Green Ants Dream.

Solstice


We make a big bash for Yulefest! :)

Mandala


I have that; we crave symmetry!

Redfrog777:

I like your avatar. If you need help, give a hoy.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 23, 2009 - 9:58AM #516
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136
Well thank you Karma, I appreciate the the offer. I just might do that my friend.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 10:10PM #517
Kay404
Posts: 174

Feb 21, 2009 -- 7:57PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

...If you've never experience the "Sacred Land" in all it's Awe and Wonder at least once while fully awake and aware your missing the whole point.... Until one has been there 1st hand & "knows" 1's world is dead .inanimate ie not fully living ie disenchanted... Cutoff from the source of the living water. living a life of theory... 



For a shamanist, I think you're right -- if they've never experienced the living realms of spirit they are missing the point. 


Feb 21, 2009 -- 7:57PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

... I say at least a one time usage of an Entheogen in heavy dosage while being watched over by experienced loving friend is in order...



This, I do NOT agree with.  Few people in our culture have a friend experienced enough to guide them safely through such experiences, should anything go wrong.  And entheogens are not necessary. 


Those same realms are available to almost anyone through shamanic spirit journey.  I have spoken with the spirit of a stone, I have run as a wolf beside Wolf and drunk cold water beside him from a stream, I have taken crow form and played and tumbled in the air with Crow, I have joined with the spirit of tree and felt my roots deep in the earth, my branches swaying in the wind, and I have been carried by a spirit of the wind to experience different forms of weather first-hand.  I have been taught and guided by Ancestors, animal spirits, stones, plants and many others, and I have both received healing and done work with the spirits for the healing of others and healing of the Earth.  The living, spirit aspects of reality are available to us all.  We do not need to have the doors of our minds flung open by entheogens when we can learn to open them ourselves, in ways that give us immediate access to wise and trustworthy spirit allies.


I'm glad for you that you have a community and structure that give you fulfilling experiences through entheogens.  But for most people raised in contemporary cultures, there are better ways to enter spirit realms.


Bright blessings on your path,


Kay

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2009 - 12:24PM #518
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136


Kay:


 Few people in our culture have a friend experienced enough to guide them safely through such experiences, should anything go wrong.  And entheogens are not necessary. “


 


 Then one must go it alone. Dangerous, yes…………..but the value of such experience is incalculable.  


 


 And entheogens are not necessary.”


 


 Kay I have no doubt of the experiences that you recount.  However they are not the experiences that one would have working with entheogens. To say that entheogens are not necessary is kinda putting blinders on IMO.


 Journeys made with entheogens are not the same as drumming journeys are not the same as fasting journeys are not the same as deprivation journeys etc.etc.


 Discounting entheogens because they are not P.C. or because of the potential dangers evolved is not intellectually honest.


 There is a place and necessity for ALL forms of shamanic journey. Especially those that are dangerous and/or painful. Perhaps one of the greatest dangers of this world is the fallacy of safety. This concept breeds complacency. This same complacency is fatal as it drains off the necessity of effort.


 


 Entheogens stress the ego in ways that few other methods can. That reason alone is sufficient to warrant honest consideration for using them. With honest effort a relationship with the spirit of a particular entheogen can be developed. And very powerful awareness’s and insights can be achieved as a result of that relationship.  


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5 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2009 - 11:14PM #519
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 12,503
Albert Hofmann's problem child had an important cultural impact!

"Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann, who discovered the drug lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) while looking for medically useful derivatives of the ergot fungus, is also credited as the first to experience an acid trip.

Hofmann took his first trip, in 1943, by accident, apparently as a result of accidentally spilling the chemical on his fingertips in his Basel laboratory. He went home and "sank into a not-unpleasant condition", a dreamy state in which he saw psychedelic images.

His second experience was less agreeable: he deliberately took a dose that he believed to be light, but which led to intense effects while riding home on his bicycle - an episode that has become notorious in recreational pharmaceutical circles.

While the chemical may have uses in psychiatry, its impact to date has arguably been more cultural than medical."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16735-eight-scientists-who-became-their-own-guinea-pigs.html?full=true
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2009 - 11:52PM #520
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136

It's about time Karma!!! Where the hell you been?!LOL! Good to see you.


I'll give you the cultural impact of LSD. However I do not like it as a journey vehicle. It has a very manufactured feel to me. Not to mention most of what I have found, has been dirty. 


I have experienced a very clean, safe and guided journey with this material. I was deeply impacted by the journey, for the better. I have just found it wanting in spirit, it has no soul of it's own. 


This is not the case with the plant medicines that I have worked with. 

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