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Switch to Forum Live View An epiphany about Mary M...
6 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2008 - 9:14PM #1
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,069
Ok, so some of you know I'm not a fan of the Apostles.  I consider them rude, hypocritical, attn-seeking jerks.

Yet, I think I see a new side...

The DaV... ah, you know that over-the-top biblical conspiracy movie ... had this idea that for theological reasons the Church made Mary Magdalene the prostitute and suppressed her "involvement" with Jesus to shame her and hold onto power.

Perhaps...

But, now that I think about it, Jesus had told His disciples to ditch their families and their jobs and had gone out of His way to say that family sucked.

So, Him having a g/f would surely tick off the disciples, who then suppressed her involvement due to petty resentment.

Wait, so, is that better or worse?  :P
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 1:19PM #2
Merope
Posts: 9,351
[QUOTE=Iwantamotto;373528]Ok, so some of you know I'm not a fan of the Apostles.  I consider them rude, hypocritical, attn-seeking jerks.

Yet, I think I see a new side...

The DaV... ah, you know that over-the-top biblical conspiracy movie ... had this idea that for theological reasons the Church made Mary Magdalene the prostitute and suppressed her "involvement" with Jesus to shame her and hold onto power.

Perhaps...

But, now that I think about it, Jesus had told His disciples to ditch their families and their jobs and had gone out of His way to say that family sucked.

So, Him having a g/f would surely tick off the disciples, who then suppressed her involvement due to petty resentment.

Wait, so, is that better or worse?  :P[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]LOL, well, one (or more) of the gospels recounts that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law.  Perhaps that indicates Peter was married.

I'm not sure it was really the apostles who spread the rumor that Mary was a prostitute.  For instance, she's never been viewed as such in the Orthodox Church; there, she has the appellation "apostle to the apostles."

I think it was Gregory the Great who set the Church on the definitive path of confusion and combination of Mary Magdalene with the "sinful" or penitent  woman in the gospels and with Mary of Bethany (sister of Martha and Lazarus).  I don't see that the gospel texts support this conflation, though.

Anyway, Mary gets her own back in the gnostic [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Gospel of Mary[/COLOR].  Have you read it?  It sounds like you'd like it :-)  Shortly after Jesus' death, all the apostles are huddled in an upper room somewhere, hiding, and terrified that their number will be up next in the crucifixion sweepstakes.  Mary arrives, and we immediately see that she's the only brave one of the bunch.  She talks to them in words of comfort, hope, courage, and inspiration.  Not surprisingly, Peter gets jealous and bent out of shape because she was an apparent favorite of Jesus; he also starts dissing her because she's a woman.  Two of the other apostles stand up for her, though, and effectively talk Peter down.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 2:11PM #3
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,069
:D

I've seen documentaries on it and read a few things, but I've never read the actual gospel itself...
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 3:48PM #4
Merope
Posts: 9,351
[QUOTE=Iwantamotto;376984]:D

I've seen documentaries on it and read a few things, but I've never read the actual gospel itself...[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]Well, click the link and get on over there and start readin', dude ;)  It's not all that long.  The part where Mary nails the apostles is toward the end.  You can read just that part; it plays out almost like a stand-alone vignette.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 4:08PM #5
Wmdkitty
Posts: 2,174
I got a chuckle out of the end of the Gospel of Mary. Peter got pwn'd by the other Apostles.
"The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post "Thou shalt not steal", Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment." -- George Carlin
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 7:17PM #6
BetteTheRedde
Posts: 2,325
Actually, as Borg and Crossan point out in the Last Week, the apostles' behaviour during Holy Week was in stark contrast to that of Jesus' female followers.

The men couldn't stay awake while he prayed in Gethsemane, they disobeyed his call to non-violence during his arrest, they fled, they betrayed him, they denied him.

The women (Mary, mainly) pre-annointed him for burial with costly ointment, stayed with him at the Cross, followed him to the tomb, and were the first to see the risen Christ.
"Sometimes they are referred to as the 'radical Right.' But the fact is that there is nothing radical about them. They offer no novel solutions to the problems that plague them; indeed, they offer no solutions at all. They are immensely discontented with things as they are and furiously impatient with almost everyone in public office who can in any way be held responsible for their frustrations. But it cannot be said that they hold any clearly stated objectives or have any specific program either in common or individuals. They are fundamentally and temperamentally 'aginners.' And perhaps the commonest characteristic among them is anger. They can fairly be called, if nothing else, the Rampageous Right."

Alan Barth, New York Times, November 26, 1961
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2008 - 7:46PM #7
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,069
Wow, that wasn't half bad.  Normally, I'm not fond of gnostic "The world sux".... but I'm all for the girl power here!  :D

I bet Judas and Mary would have felt similarly.  I mean, the apostles all complain about how evil Judas was, but THEY de-emphasize what a bunch of cowards THEY were.  Funny how that works out...
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2008 - 9:48AM #8
BetteTheRedde
Posts: 2,325
But Mark doesn't de-emphasize it. Read his story of Holy Week. He doesn't play down the fact that the guys screwed up, and they didn't get it.

At Borg and Crossan's behest in The Last Week, I've been trying to read Mark without the lens of Christian tradition and the other gospels. It's very illuminating.
"Sometimes they are referred to as the 'radical Right.' But the fact is that there is nothing radical about them. They offer no novel solutions to the problems that plague them; indeed, they offer no solutions at all. They are immensely discontented with things as they are and furiously impatient with almost everyone in public office who can in any way be held responsible for their frustrations. But it cannot be said that they hold any clearly stated objectives or have any specific program either in common or individuals. They are fundamentally and temperamentally 'aginners.' And perhaps the commonest characteristic among them is anger. They can fairly be called, if nothing else, the Rampageous Right."

Alan Barth, New York Times, November 26, 1961
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2008 - 2:54PM #9
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,069
At least Mark's not much of a jerk :D

From that Mary gospel, it looks like Peter is the major pig...
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