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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 12:01PM #11
J.Michael
Posts: 28
Part III

Geshe'la I have left the tradition for good, as I understand that my karma has ended for the NKT. However I am frightened a little as I have had several Shugdan empowerments. Like I said previously I have stopped this practice and also the practice of Heruka. Please could you give me some advice on what practices I need to do and also how I can contact other Gelug groups within the Manchester area? I understand fully that the NKT would deny any of what I have said. I also know I am not alone due to the fact others have also told me about experiences they have had. All I wish for is to be able to practice with freedom this is the reason I have decided to leave this tradition. I understand that this is my karma and have accepted it as so. This has been a painful and confusing experience however I still have faith in Buddha Dharma and know that lama Tsongkhapa's doctrine is the truth.

Thank you for listening to me

-----------------------

This is the post of the former NKT monk. I can confirm the paranoia in NKT, the hostility and slander against the Dalai Lama, the greed for money, misbehaviour of members, carelessness regarding the education and mental ability of NKT teachers (even people with borderline disorder were encouraged to continue to be NKT teachers because "your actions benefit millions of sentient beings"). I can confirm the tactics against Andy Weber, FPMT etc.

The post above and more first hand insider reports you can read at the New Kadampa Survivors Forum.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 3:53PM #12
Pthalo
Posts: 464
Thank you J.Michael for your brave post.  I had not realized it had gotten as bad as that.  I left the NKT in 2005.
[COLOR="Blue"]My ordination request was granted and a western teacher asked me if I would start to teach. I couldn't believe what I was hearing I was asked to teach Dharma after a few weeks of being in the tradition I declined the offer as I found this to be insane. I had always had a strong sense of respect for Tibetan ritual and practices.[/COLOR]

I'm having trouble believing this statement.  I have always believed that one must complete teacher training to be teacher.  It is also hard to believe you became a monk so soon.  What happened to Gen la Samden?

Thank you again.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 4:12PM #13
J.Michael
Posts: 28
Sorry Pthalo, my post is not brave. I hide my identity and experience behind a post of another NKT monk. The experience one makes depends much on the level of involvement and how deep one has opened one's heart to let the NKT and their understanding of 'Buddhism' in... I found this post gives a clear picture of what can happen to someone who trust his heart, time, life, money, energy, faith and spirituality in NKT. What is correct that the destructive structure seems to got worse with time. I hope NKT can wake up and correct their route otherwise NKT and its members are just lost.

Regarding who can become a teacher in NKT:
I can not speak for the person who published this post. I became NKT teacher after 2 years (after ordination), my NKT teacher became NKT teacher after two years (after ordination). We both never finished the TTP, we just started with it. From my observation it is true that immediately after ordination monks and nuns in NKT start to teach. So I do not doubt what he said. The rules in NKT and the reality of their application are two different things in NKT. When I was still a member of NKT I read in the NKT Full Moon Magazine that even very young people (17 years old) became teachers. They chatted in Full Moon what  good Karma and faith in Geshe la they had to do this....
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 8:28PM #14
wisdombuddha
Posts: 4
Tenzin Peljor (J.Micheal), I can see that you continue to distort the truth to fit your campaign against the New Kadampa Tradition.

This poster is on an obsessive campaign against the NKT and you can read about his history with the NKT here: http://newkadampatruth.org/fpmt.php#a1

The website he references in earlier posts and claims is "neutral" is his own site and comes from his years of personal bias against the NKT. You can check yourself and see most articles are biased against the NKT.

The truth about NKT teachers is that The NKT does not claim to be perfect or for its teachers to be perfect. Some teachers have acted heavy-handedly, however well intentioned, which is regretted. However, there is no systemic appointment of unskillful teachers and it is not reasonable to blame all NKT teachers for the shortcomings of some NKT teachers.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 8:31PM #15
peljor
Posts: 2
thank you MIchael Jackel aka Tenzin aka Tashi etc for repeating that same story for the millionth time. You seem to have been even busier than ever since the new website called www.NewKadampatruth.org came out!

It is interesting that you are so keen on discrediting the NKT despite the experiences of so many thousands of people whose experiences of the NKT over 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years are so dramatically different to your own. Why do you believe that you hold the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Why are you so certain that you are right and that everyone in the NKT is wrong?! The arrogance is terrifying. You seem to think that all those people who derive so much benefit and happiness for themselves and others by practicing the teachings of Lojong, Lamrim and Mahamudra taught in this beautiful tradition are all deluded, not to mention devil worshippers. That is so completely crazy, yet again and again we have to answer these allegations that you make. Quicker now to direct people to www.NewKadampaTruth.org

We in the NKT have heard many smears against us and had many instances of some students in the FPMT like you giving us a very hard time. However, the smears do all boil down to the ones addressed on www.NewKadampaTruth.org. They are also connected with the ban of our practice of Dorje Shugden in India (please see www.WisdomBuddhaDorjeShugden.org for the facts on that  persecution). You alone are responsible for posting most of the smears on the internet, the same ones again and again and again e.g. this story that you post here, which is the main staple of the survivors' group that you want everyone to join. No thank you. It is dark in there, no positive viewpoint allowed, no light of good experiences by the thousands of happy NKT'ers.

There are thousands of good experiences had by people every day in the NKT. Every time you try and get them to leave, it is sad. It is bad karma. Causing people to lose faith in their tradition and their teacher is bad.

The NKT has now been on the defensive for 12 years, sitting by while people like you call us spirit worshippers and cultists. But we now have to fight back, our passivity has meant that people like you have spread lies about us like a virus. Sorry about that, but there it is -- we will be patient, we will even love you, but we will oppose you and your horrible ideas. You no longer hold the floor.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 9:08PM #16
vegetara
Posts: 15
[QUOTE=Bodhidude;554197]

After all, Buddha taught that you should view a Dharma teacher as a living Buddha. 

[/QUOTE]

really? which sutra is that?
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 10:29PM #17
Pthalo
Posts: 464
I am sorry to hear of all this trouble with the NKT. I met many wonderful people in my temple both ordained and not.  These "smears" are unfortunate but I think the NKT management needs to look at where the source of so much discontent is.  I met many wonderful people who left the organization and I wondered why.  I visited your website "stop the smears" and it contains truths but also half-truths.  For example, when you state that you do not forbid books outside the tradition to be read, that is true.  But it is understood that reading such books should not be read because it causes confusion in the student.  This is banning books by peer pressure and from the teacher also.  The student gets the idea that such books are banned. (even though there is no such policy) Peer pressure was everything.  One wants to fit in, gain knowledge and wisdom but basic human needs sometimes are not met. There is no great conspiracy out to get the NKT.  there are a great number of people who have left for reasons that are not posted by weird ex monks and the like.  They have valid complaints.  These complaints are never listened to in my experience.  Fighting back in such a way only validates the negative attitudes against the NKT.  You should look again into WHY such complaints are raised.  Why just you and not other traditions such as Vipassana and such.  There is abuse in all religions because they are populated with people and not realized Buddhas.  There is sexual misadventure, financial derring do,  and all sorts of human mischief in the NKT and in all religion. Admit it.  Move on and improve your organization.  You have big problems.
http://newkadampatruth.org/fpmt.php#a1

The website he references in earlier posts and claims is "neutral" is his own site and comes from his years of personal bias against the NKT. You can check yourself and see most articles are biased against the NKT.

The truth about NKT teachers is that The NKT does not claim to be perfect or for its teachers to be perfect. Some teachers have acted heavy-handedly, however well intentioned, which is regretted. However, there is no systemic appointment of unskillful teachers and it is not reasonable to blame all NKT teachers for the shortcomings of some NKT teachers.[/quote]
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2008 - 6:50AM #18
J.Michael
Posts: 28
Dear WisdomBuddha, it was nice and a wonderful opportunity  to meet you at different places in the internet. Wherever you appeared you kindly attacked me and as a result I left the place. I will also leave now here - and you can relax - I will not appear at any internet-place again. I accept the attacks as my Karma and so I feel nice and happy with it. Thank you for helping me to purify my Karma and all your efforts and please excuse the disturbances I have created and all my faults and arrogance. It is natural that I get attacked, if I would not have engaged there would be no attack. :-)

When I chose "J.Michael" here I was aware that I will possible be attacked by you again but I felt not comfortable to use another name. The first post of this thread asked:

"Hello all, I have been somewhat involved with the NKT group in my city had I am shocked to say the least that some consider them a cult. I haven't really seen anything to support that slanderous label, but being in that I am in a wheelchair and the centre here is not accessible, I haven't gotten too involved. I do know the local group has changed resident teachers recently so have undergone a bit of a change.

I would really like to hear from folks who think this tradition is a cult and why you feel this way. I would appreciate it if people who have first hand experience would express their view.

thank you very much....always"

What is wrong with citing an insider experience? What is wrong in stating the site "Tibetan Buddhism goes West..." "aims" to be neutral? What is wrong in referring also to your site "New Kadampa Truth - fighting the Smear" and pointing at the end to the INFORM website?
What is wrong with that post? Can you answer it? Should there be no answer?

If you think I am obsessed, you have to acknowledge that you are obsessed too, aren't you?
So we both are obsessed. Hello welcome dear obsessed friend. Maybe we can found a Yahoo! Group "The suffering of obsessed Buddhists"? or publish a Youtube video? ;-)

For me it was worthwhile to engage in pointing out the destructive sides of NKT and of course NKT has not only destructive sides and there are a lot of devoted, nice and engaged members who do their best. On the other hand the destructive sides of NKT have damaged the spiritual and worldly life of many people. I listened to them and I received emails and feedbacks and much encouragement by them. The only negative responses I received is from devoted NKT members.

I understand that you and some NKT members may feel attacked, threatened and maybe even persecuted. But what is about Buddhist principles of cause and effect? What is the cause for what?

I started my activities some years ago when an ex-member told to another ex-member about his suffering within NKT. Then the other person who was at that time still quite naive about NKT got for many minutes silent. After a long period of silence he said to me: "When only one person can be protected to experience such things, what a great value would this be!"

This sentence has gone deep into my heart and I thought 2 days about it. As a result I came to clarity if I do nothing who else will care? So I set up in three days my German website about Buddhist cults, without mentioning NKT or any Buddhist group. Later I recognized that NKT started to operate with half-truths and untruths at Wikipedia and although some editors refused what NKT claimed they lacked the knowledge about the facts. So again I felt challenged to do something. I became Wikipedia editor for three years, this included also controversial subjects like Nydahl, Karampa Controversy, Michael Roach and other entries etc. until NKT started their Media Campaign against the Dalai Lama and I recognized that my membership and the attacks of a group of new NKT editors will turn into a war of words, so I left the place. All other situations developed in a similar pattern. (There is nothing existing from its own side, all is dependent arising, there are countless factors, causes and conditions which give rise to events, and there is not a single person which can be blamed, only the mind poisons: greed, ignorance, anger, pride, jealousy etc. can be blamed, and we all, who are not free from it,  suffer on it.) Every action I undertook either an action of NKT proceeded it, like the WSS protests etc or I received an email, feedback or had a talk with a former member which urged me to do something.

It is not true that I wrote hostile reviews at Amazon, my reviews focus on the content of the books. Many of what the "New Kadampa Truth" site states about David, Lama Zopa, me, FPMT etc. is not true or are again just half-truths. I am no FPMT member and not influenced by them. I didn't help to moderate at E-Sangha, I didn't help to take away Schloss Sommerswalde; I wrote one or two Emails to BBC and asked them to check their article on NKT by consulting religious scientists and Tibetan Buddhist specialists and pointed out some of the wrong statements and asked BBC to verify them by using academical or reliable sources. When the WSS protests started I encouraged in the Survivors forum to ask BBC to investigate the Shugden subject/WSS protests more deeply. BBC is famous for being neutral. If they publish a report this should be also in the interest of NKT, shouldn't it? There is more, however I leave it as it is.

Now the situation is as it is and we all can look what is most constructive at this moment. Things change, we change, NKT change. All is open how things develop and it is in our hands. The past is the past and the future is not here. So what matters is what is now and what we do now. My conclusion is to give NKT and me a rest and time to settle and to leave it to others to investigate, judge or to act in that case.

I wish you and Geshe Kelsang, Gen Khyenrab, Gen Samden, all former, present and future NKT memers all the best. May all your spiritual wishes be fulfilled. Please accept my excuse for all the harm and suffering I created for you or NKT. My intention was to protect people from the hellish nightmares which NKT membership can lead to. I think when you or NKT feels the urge to protect others against the "persecution" of the Dalai Lama, you and NKT can also acknowledge my right to protect others from the NKT? There is not much difference in our action, is it?

Keep your chins up, J.Michael
BTW: There are posts by "Michael" in the internet on NKT which aren't my posts. When I recognized this I used "Mike".
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2008 - 10:44AM #19
davcuts
Posts: 2
Tenzin pay Lucy James no mind. Here she is at Beleifnet disguised once again under a different alias. It's a shame really. Lucy dedicated so much of her time and energy to the NKT, only to be removed as resident teacher by GKG. Now she has taken it upon herself to get back in good standing in order to get her "throne" back. You go girl! Now that you have created newkadampacrap.org, sorry I meant to say newkadampatruth.org, GKG will surely give you back your much deserved title as resident teacher. Let's just hope in the future you never step out of line again. If you do who knows what will happen.

And by the way thank you so much Lucy for including me in Behind the Lies. I now have people emailing me threatening to knock me off, calling me a demon. Thanks to you NKT brainwashed fanatics now know who I am, and are threatening me with violence. Thank you so much for that. But hey if it means it's going to make you resident teacher again, it's all good. Us former members understand completely the lengths we'd go to to appease our gods, GKG, and Dorje Shugden. We can't hold that against you.

If people want to know the truth about the NKT, please join the New Kadampa Survivors group. There you will find nearly 700 former members of the NKT who have first hand account about what the organization is about.

And Lucy please spare me the remarks I have some hidden agenda against the NKT. The only agenda I've got is keeping people from getting hurt both spiritually and mentally by the organization you are hell bent on defending. Please also don't attack me for suffering with depression and anxiety. Just because I do doesn't mean I can't come to my own conclusions about what the NKT is and isn't. Your suggestion that it does is a slap in the face from all who suffer with mental health issues. I can assure you I am doing fine mentally now that I removed myself from that organization called the NKT.

Take care,
David
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2008 - 11:56AM #20
RenGalskap
Posts: 1,420
Before making a contribution to this thread, please read the first thread in the forum, written by BrBurl, the original moderator here. :)

Link -> Guidelines & ROC

When removing posts, it's Bnet policy to also remove any posts that respond to or refer to the deleted post. I apologize to those of you who took the time to write thoughtful, considered responses. Your contribution is valued, but the policy is to remove any response.

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