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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2008 - 1:38PM #1
lookingforinsight
lookingforinsight
Posts: 587
Out of respect for Theo's "Politics Anyone" thread getting derailed, a new thread is being started to present the scriptural evidence that 2008 through 2012 are the last days.

Okay, Palmtree. Please quote any scripture you feel is relevant.

Thanks.

Looking
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2008 - 4:10PM #2
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231
There are many scriptures regarding this topic so, this may be a long haul! I have been around long enough to know most of the arguments, and probably so have you. Therefore, for the purpose of not derailing this thread, shall we forgo the; "nobody can know" - "the last days have been predicted before",- "it's only scare tactics", yada, yada, etc.


Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Jesus stated many things in response to the above question and He did not state that the world would go on forever, and He did not state that He would never return. Nevertheless, Jesus did present much accurate information about it, albeit it is shrouded in parables.

Also, the meaning of the end-time parables were hidden until the time of the end; the time in which we are currently living! Nevertheless, it is somewhat of a drawn out process, but it will eventually begin to unfold. So, you can expect multiple posts over several days and I will assume that you are reading; so you shouldn't feel the need to immediately respond.


Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2008 - 4:36PM #3
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231
On previous discussions, I've eluded to the importance of the use of mathematics in the bible. Nothing overly complicated and certainly not numerology. Numerology is an hoax. However, a premise that needs to be remembered is that Jesus was purposefully ambiguous in order to keep the information sealed until the end. So He taught using parables.

Matthew 13:34-35
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.   

Some of those parables were in the form of an equation. Here is an example...

Matthew 18:21-22
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
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Which can also be expressed as.......            490 = 7 x 7 x 5 x 2

These prime numbers (among others) reveal reoccurring themes throughout the scriptures. They are not placed in the scriptures by accident and they will become very important to reinforce many of the difficult to understand concepts. Again, these number themes are not numerology.


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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2008 - 6:21PM #4
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231
It is also necessary to be aware of the different nuances within the biblical terminology. Some everyday words in the modern day English have been skewed, if not completely changed, from the way they have been used in the past. For example, one hundred years ago, the term "gay" was not necessarily used to identify sexual orientation.

Likewise, today the term "knew" isn't often used as a euphemism for the concept of being actively involved or to "understand the experience" of something. However, here is an example of the use of the biblical term "knew"...

Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 

It is a very subtle nuance, however, if these subtleties are forgotten or ignored, it can change the intended perception of a verse. So, terminology must be carefully considered before arriving at any conclusions about a verse.



Along with number themes, which were discussed in a previous post, word themes also reoccur in the scriptures. Specifically, the term "hour" or "day" can be euphemisms for the concept of "Judgment Day". And that brings us to this very misunderstood verse...

Matthew 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


"Day" and "Hour" in the above passage is a direct reference to "Judgment Day", and no man "knows" or "understands" what it is to "experience" that Day. But God knows and "understands" what it is to "experience" that Day. Remember, Adam "knew" his wife? So, the above verse is not a reference at all to  "WHEN" that Day will occur. It is an important distinction to ponder and it is a nuance which can cause the passage to be easily misunderstood. 
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2008 - 9:06PM #5
lookingforinsight
lookingforinsight
Posts: 587

you can expect multiple posts over several days and I will assume that you are reading; so you shouldn't feel the need to immediately respond.

Okay. Just letting you know that I'm listening. Take all the time you need. I'll wait until you're done and won't say anything unless I have a question for clarification.

I'd like to ask others to wait until Palmtree finishes laying out her case before commenting.
(Of course, this is just a friendly request on my part; feel free to jump in if  you like.)

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2008 - 7:25AM #6
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231

lookingforinsight wrote:

Okay. Just letting you know that I'm listening. Take all the time you need. I'll wait until you're done and won't say anything unless I have a question for clarification.

I'd like to ask others to wait until Palmtree finishes laying out her case before commenting.
(Of course, this is just a friendly request on my part; feel free to jump in if  you like.)



LOL! I hope that I will be able to finish this.  I should have explained that my discovery was like a person on a very long journey. So many things had to occur before I could even begin to arrive at any solid conclusions. I have invested so many hours and years of my life in the Holy scriptures. No, I wasn't frantically driven by a pursuit to know the return of Christ; because I was erroneously taught that that was not possible to know.

Nevertheless, I seemed to be naturally drawn into the scriptures and like any interesting book, it was difficult NOT to return to them again and again. So, I'm attempting to reconstruct a condensed version of that life journey and my many surprise discoveries.

Much of my journey involved unlearning the errors of many things which were previously taught to me, and to remain faithful to what I found in the scriptures. Therefore, it is the scriptures which have radically changed my perspective and it may be in direct opposition to what most people have been taught. However, I'll try to keep it interesting and I'm also not opposed to anyone wanting to join the discussion. I may not respond to everyone so as to remain on topic.


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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2008 - 6:52PM #7
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231
The bible is a law book. It is a book stating the laws and judgments of God. However, in addition to that, the bible is also a calendar. Moreover, specific biblical events have been scheduled to occur at specific times. Time began at Creation and time will end on the final Judgment or The Last Great Day.

Ecclesiastes 8:6
Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

So the biblical events do not occur accidentally or haphazardly because they can only occur at their scheduled or "appointed" times

Genesis 18:14
Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Exodus 9:5
And the Lord appointed a set time, saying, Tomorrow the Lord shall do this thing in the land.

2 Samuel 24:15
So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beer–sheba seventy thousand men.

Job 7:1
Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Daniel 8:19
And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2008 - 7:03AM #8
Palmtree0
Palmtree0
Posts: 3,231
The human body is comprised of a; nervous system, a circulatory system, a bone structure, etc. All of these systems have unique elements and characteristics which can be separate wonderful studies unto themselves. However, the purpose of these separate systems are extended to the needs of the greater body and cannot exist without the body. The point being, that sometimes we can get lost in the forest because we are too narrowly focused on the trees.

Likewise, the bible is comprised of several complex studies unto themselves. These systems are interwoven within the scriptures:

Laws or Judgments (Moral and eternal)
A hidden but accurate biblical calendar and scheduled events
Spiritual or non-literal word and number themes or parables (Such as: Christ being called a lamb, etc)
Literal physical historical events  (Christ was actually crucified)
Life and Death

So, It is important to not lose sight of the greater purpose when studying individual biblical systems or concepts. For example, when focusing on the subject of death (Hell), we can tend to forget about life, (Salvation), however, it is not really possible to fully understand the one concept until it is contrasted by the other. So It is essential to remember that these things are all part of a greater purpose.

Physical death is representative of eternal death, Physical life is representative of eternal life. So accustom yourself to thinking out of the narrow physical box in which we are embodied and ponder the greater purpose.


Psalm 8:3-9
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou made him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2008 - 8:56AM #9
Icelander
Icelander
Posts: 872
[QUOTE=Palmtree0;214750]Physical death is representative of eternal death, Physical life is representative of eternal life. So accustom yourself to thinking out of the narrow physical box in which we are embodied and ponder the greater purpose. [/QUOTE]

I've already grown accustomed to the idea of nonexistence after death. Saying that your god is going to be the agent of my nonexistence makes no difference to me: I still won't exist after I die except within the memories of the people I encounter here on Earth.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2008 - 11:13AM #10
allthegoodnamesweretaken
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

palmtree] Physical death is representative of eternal death, Physical life is representative of eternal life. So accustom yourself to thinking out of the narrow physical box in which we are embodied and ponder the greater purpose.



[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=Red]Beware that you do not place yourself in what is in reality, simply another box.  wrote:

[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][COLOR=Blue] Physical death is representative of eternal death, Physical life is representative of eternal life. So accustom yourself to thinking out of the narrow physical box in which we are embodied and ponder the greater purpose.[/quote]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=Red]Beware that you do not place yourself in what is in reality, simply another box.  You say Physical death is "representative" of eternal death.  I say physical death is eternal death.  There are spiritual and material aspects to reality, but they are part of the same reality.  Forever joined and dependent upon each other.  What is referred to as a separate spiritual realm is just another part of reality.  The aspects that people see and attribute to the spiritual nature are dependent upon upon material processes that could not have been seen or understood by the persons who wrote the ancient holy books. 

You say Physical life is "representative" of eternal life.  I say eternal life is simply a function of the minds inability to comprehend it's own non-existence. 

By pondering the "greater purpose" in the manner you have demonstrated, you have limited yourself to the thinking of persons who had much less information about the workings of the universe than what we are privy to, and have placed yourself in a box much smaller box than the one you think we have done.

all
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Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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