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Switch to Forum Live View How did the Semitic Jews become Blue-eyed Blonds?
6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 11:18AM #121
Nabi
Posts: 31

Aug 29, 2011 -- 12:22AM, nieciedo wrote:


Wow! It's been a long time since we've seen you, Steve! How's your new gnostic religion going? Had any more prophetic revelations lately?


Oh yeah. You saw what happened after I left my mark in Cairo last year where I and my peace pilgrim partner spent about four days downtown living in a cheap hotel room and spending time on those very streets and Tahir square that erupted this year. Took the Egyptian bus to Eliat expecting to take an Israeli bus from there to Jerusalem where we were to meet the Nazareth Melkite Greek Orthodox priest who is the keeper of Paxcalibur. I was to re-perform my role with Pax that happened in the 2003 Nazareth Easter procession in this 2003 Palm Sunday procession in Jerusalem, a much bigger event. Well, the Israeli buses weren't running so we had to take a taxi from Eliat to Jerusalem and got our fair unaccountably and unfairly doubled right a few blocks before being let off at night and no recourse to this Israeli Jewish taxi driver's rip-off. Welcome to Israel! Where there is such a huge difference in attitudes between Israeli Jews one meets and Palestinians, although there was one Israeli Jewish woman on a bus we took and one Israeli soldier we asked directions from who broke the usual "we don't give a fuck about you but do spend your money" attitude that prevails in Israeli interactions. Went to the Palm Sunday event but we never found Abuna. He was there, got there late with Pax but never saw us but that wasn't the main reason I went back to Israel/Palestine last year. It was following another spiritual Paxcalibur instruction, this one to do a peace prayer ritual touch to the Apartheid Wall in Bethlehem, that one or going to Bilin but that wasn't possible so it was to be Bethlehem and it worked out pretty well. Those Apartheid Walls will be coming down just like the Berlin Wall did as these separation walls historically only define the level of paranoia and fascist repression of the builders. Had a phony bomb scare waiting for the Bethlehem bus and another weird experience at the Israeli checkpoint barring entry into Bethlehem which was just opened an hour before our arrival, IDF having shut access to Bethlehem down for five days of Easter tourism monies lost to Palestinians,  the IDF doing this in retaliation for my friend the director of the Holy Land Trust's successful court ruling freeing 12 Palestinian activists arrested merely for non-violent demonstration. This ruling set a precedent allowing non-violent demonstrators not to be arrested for just expressing their political views. So the IDF does what it did, and the idiocy of a primarily European Jewish colongy in an Arab Muslim majority region goes on..

i145.photobucket.com/albums/r236/biomyst...


I wrote a new Gospel that is based on the series of revelations I was getting about the roots of Christianity coming out of Egypt, a direction that actually began in my life way back in 1964 when my wife to be and I visited a Christian psychic who told me Egypt would become very important in my life. And it did decades later when I discovered my new Christian religious conversion was to a Gnostic form, something I learned after reading the newly published in English Nag Hammadi Library find of lost Gnostic Gospels. The second round of Egyptian connection happened after reading about the discovery of a prayer bowl found in the harbor of Alexandria, Egypt inscribed to "Christ the magician" and dated somewhere between 100 BC and 100 AD. I saw a connection between John the Baptist words in Mark and John's Gospels using "sandal strap" in a way that connects it to the Isis mystery of unlocking the key to resurrection to eternal life in the symbology of the  "sandal strap/Ankh" in Egyptian lore. And then I saw the Boanerges/Sons of Thunder connection to the Nag Hammadi Library's Gnostic Hymn to Isis called Thunder, Perfect Mind and finding Isis was also another storm goddess with thunder as one of Her appellations.


About 6 months ago or thereabouts I discovered this historian's D.M. Murdock's book "Christ in Egypt" and found that the Egyptian connection to the roots of Christian theology has been noticed for centuries on and off and now it's being well established with this absolutely remarkable imbedded astro-theology contained in Gospel symbolism starting with Jesus as another Horus/Osiris sun god. Amazing stuff because now Christianity is fully connected to all the other religions throughout the world which also share this astro-theology. Judaism has it to some extent but because Judaism was founded as a rebellion against Egyptian culture and religion the astro-theology aspects are more hidden and fewer than in Christianity which now to me seems like a deliberate attempt by Alexandrian Gnostic/Theraputae type Jews thinking and writing in Greek to convert fellow Greek-speaking Jews throughout the Diaspora in Roman Empire domination back to a Jewish form of the Egyptian solar deity based religion. Why do this? To save Jewish souls for resurrection to eternal life which dead Jews didn't enjoy as shadows in Sheol. Don't you want to live forever? Don't you want to know the identity of God and the purpose of life and humanity? It's all explained in the new Gospel I wrote before knowing the full extent of the Egyptian connection because Christianity is a Jewish Egyptian Mystery Religion using Greek ideas and language to express itself. The Gospels starting with Mark and ending with John (John-Mark was Mark's name) reflect the Alexandrian Jewish community origins by Jewish writers frequenting the Library of Alexandria and cobbling together a brand new Jewish religion where the Sun god replaces the Saturn god of Judaism, the name of Saturn being "EL" in the Canaanite language of which Hebrew is considered a dialect by linguists. Anyway, Pauline Christianity takes another blow from historical discovery overturning traditions by revealing their pagan roots. It's all good for biomystical Christianity as my weird Gnostic path continues to stand up to historical discovery toppling traditional Pauline Christianity as well as Jewish and all Abrahamic based religions with news about Jewish remakes of pagan religious ideas, deities, religious motifs and rituals and on and on it goes..monotheism being ripped apart as a spiritually prostituted politically based remolding process of polytheistic religious ideas. Are you glad to see me!


This year I completed another one of my "really big" religious visions, one that began in 1998 and involved a vision of a Native American spirit woman who I learned in 2003 matched a Lakota prophesy. In the years in between 1998 and this year the Creator has been uniting my life with the Lakota unknownst to me until 2003. This is a remarkable spiritual vision as it unites Old World Holy Land traditions with New World Native American spirituality and it is happening effortlessly in a most amazing way. More about it later as this post is getting rather long, but don't you love it?


 


Seriously, though, all of this talk about genes misses a big and crucial point: peoplehood is not transmitted by genes but rather by memes.


An adopted child or a spouse is not genetically related to his parents or to her husband and in-laws, but they are both nonetheless integrated members of their families. Likewise, naturalized citizens of a country are justs much citizens as those who were born there. It is not blood or genes that makes a person a member of people or national community - although many peoples and national communities do possess a genetic element. 


Rather, it is the transmission and adoption of the memes of identity that, when mutually recognized by members of the community, establish peoplehood.


Let's pretend that Steve's genetic claims are true and that Ashkenazi Jews are primarily of European and Central Asian genetic stock. 


So what?


That they are Jews means they have been integrated into to the Jewish people. They have adopted and over succeeding generations have passed on the memes that together comprise Jewish identity - and these memes have a historical provenance that links them to 1st century Judaism and connection to Palestine. The connection to the land of Palestine is and has been one of those memes. 


A naturalized American citizen is no less an American than one whose ancestor signed the Declaration of Independence. Likewise, a Jew who ancestor converted into the Jewish people 15 generations ago is no less Jewish than one who can trace his ancestry back to the 1st century nor is he any more Jewish than someone who converted last week. 


Also, Steve likes to condemn Jews as racist for insisting on endogamy with the implication that a resistance to intermarriage is somehow a bad thing that is both a pretense of superiority and also a justification of antisemitism. However, his Khazar theory rests not only on the possibility but widespread participation in the process of conversion. Jewish endogamy at its root is about the self-selection and preservation of memes, not of genes. Once a person has received and adopted the requisite memes, his genes are welcome into the gene pool.


Oh all this is bullshite propaganda and you should know better. There wouldn't be any recognizable continuity in the Cohen genes without severe restriction on intermarriage with Gentiles, i.e. RACIAL SELECTION. There wouldn't be clinically recognizable diseases specific to Ashkenazim without severe restriction of intermarriage with Gentiles. Judaism is based on racism. It's blanket racism which is why you don't see it because it's against intermarriage with all other ethnic peoples. It's really just like white supremacy where Caucausian white people want to consider themselves Aryans (phony Iranians hahaha if they only knew..) and better than all other non-white people in the world and against intermarriage with such.





Moderated by Merope on Aug 30, 2011 - 04:17PM
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 12:11PM #122
vra
Posts: 7,467

Aug 26, 2011 -- 5:19PM, Nabi wrote:

  





"Legally formed"...that's the joke of history as the winners of WW II, especially the U.S. with Truman sounding the call, to round up a whole 33 nations of the virtually brand new U.N. to sign the deal that broke the U.N.'s own mandate protecting indigenous populations...


But Israeli Jewish control is doomed anyway. It was from the very start as it is impossible now for European colonial imperialism to succeed in the 20th and 21st centuries. Israeli Jews will be outpopulated, outvoted by their own Palestinian Israel population by 2050 so there goes the Zionist neighborhood.





You might scoff at the U.N. decision as I have scoffed at some of their decisions as well, but the reality is that the state of Israel is, so a rehashing of history and what could have been is simply just conjecture that doesn't deal with today's reality, and that reality is to deal with what is and going forward.


Secondly, if there's a two-state solution, which I believe is really they more sensible way to go forth, the demographics your portray above could indeed happen way into the future but, hopefully, there'll be some agreements in place that both Palestinians and Jews can have.  It's very hard would could happen between now and 2050. 

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 12:27PM #123
vra
Posts: 7,467

Aug 28, 2011 -- 5:50PM, Nabi wrote:


Yes, Jewish geneticists are willing to fool the world with their "finding" of traces of Semitic ancestry in even Ashkenazim as my own dna shows but you are still refusing to think even genetically, logically, about these traces that are being used politically to foist onto the world a gigantic lie, the lie being all Jews are direct descendants of Semitic Sephardic Jews from Palestine.




Oh, so all the Jews that moved north into the European diasporah never had any descendents that eventually led to any of the Ashkanazim? 


As for me, frankly I couldn't care less about your d.n.a. or mine, largely because one's ancestry may be of personal interest but I certainly don't feel that it should amount to a hill of beans outside of that (sorry, but I did not meant to denigrate beans, so I apologize to them).  On top of that, I really don't see Jews as being more important or superior to Palestinians, and I just wish they both would just decide to be "human" and treat each others as brothers and sisters, which we are. 


Frankly, I feel that nationalism, patriotism, racism, and religion has done much to hurt the human race by putting up barriers and creating we/they dichotomies that give us cause to hate and hurt one another, but that's the unfortunate deck of cards we've been dealt, so we have to deal with it.  To me, religion should be building bridges and not walls, and just because you and I may disagree on whatever, that doesn't mean we have to throw insults and bricks at one another.


Yes, I know I'm dreaming, but just let an old man have his dreams, OK?

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 3:43PM #124
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Vern, you have lovely dreams, I too dream of everyone getting along and not trying to harm each other based on nebulous and temporal things like race, colour, religion etc...


How lovely that would truly be.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2011 - 9:30AM #125
vra
Posts: 7,467

Aug 29, 2011 -- 3:43PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Vern, you have lovely dreams, I too dream of everyone getting along and not trying to harm each other based on nebulous and temporal things like race, colour, religion etc...


How lovely that would truly be.





Amen.  I actually do think there's been some progress over the centuries and decades along this line, so I'm not that discouraged.  Change takes time, and a change as fundamental as what we're proposing would take a great deal of time. 


Today, people are more and more reaching out to those who are suffering, and we also see more interfaith cooperation and less of a "my way or the highway" approach.  However, there's obviously still many obstacles to compassion and cooperation, so there never will be a total "victory".  But this reminds me of a story I read from a Buddhist author whereas a storm caused a great many starfish to be stranded on the shore to die, but a man was walking along and throwing them back in to the sea.  As another person saw what the man was doing, he asked if it really was going to make a difference since there were thousands of starfish dying.  The man then reached down, picked another starfish up, threw it back into the sea, and said "Well, I guess I made a difference to that one".  


Sometimes we need to think small. 

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2011 - 9:48AM #126
vra
Posts: 7,467

Aug 29, 2011 -- 6:47PM, Nabi wrote:


 I've just worked too many years with Native Americans to ever be able to side with another European religious colonial enterprise which modern Israel is. ...


 The two-state solution is impossible for Palestinians to accept with its built-in destruction of social and commercial continuity between Gaza and the West Bank sectors of a divided Palestine. And besides, it was their country, they were always the majority citizens for almost 2000 years and Europeans had no legimate right to take away indigenous control of Palestine... 





Well, for what it's worth, I am American indigenous since three of my four grandparents were Me'tis (French, Pawnee, & Cree-- my fourth grandparent was Swedish).  So, let me just say that if we use your logic, then why don't you leave and let us that are truly indigenous to have our land and sovereignty back? 


The reality is that boundaries both are and were flexible, with groups migrating here and there, such as what happened during the diaporah.  When I see all but the indigenous leave America, and I see you supporting such a move, then I'll consider your approach to be consistent.  Maybe we can start out by giving the American Southwest back to Mexico since we stole it from the Spanish under the guise of "manifest destiny"?


Lastly, you simply fail to recognize the simple fact that most of today's Jews were "indigenous" themselves at one point in time and that at least part of that reverts back to eretz Israel.  Yes, I do agree with you that there has often been repression against Palestinians at times when it was unnecessary to do so, but one should also recognize the simple fact that it also has been the other way around as well.  Muslems have access to their holy sites, but before 1948 we didn't, and that's just one of many examples. 


The bottom line is that it will be both Israelis and Palestinians that eventually will have to deal with the issues at stake there to hopefully achieve peaceful resolution-- not you and I.  The best you and I can do is to encourage cooperation and tolerance while working for peace.  Taking only the side of either only prolongs the agony and does nothing to promote peace. 


Shalom       

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2011 - 7:39PM #127
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Aug 29, 2011 -- 11:18AM, Nabi wrote:


Oh all this is bullshite propaganda and you should know better. There wouldn't be any recognizable continuity in the Cohen genes without severe restriction on intermarriage with Gentiles, i.e. RACIAL SELECTION. There wouldn't be clinically recognizable diseases specific to Ashkenazim without severe restriction of intermarriage with Gentiles. Judaism is based on racism. It's blanket racism which is why you don't see it because it's against intermarriage with all other ethnic peoples. It's really just like white supremacy where Caucausian white people want to consider themselves Aryans (phony Iranians hahaha if they only knew..) and better than all other non-white people in the world and against intermarriage with such.






As usual, you both oversimplify and ignore the complexity of the situation.


The recognizable continuity of the Kohen genes on the Y-chromosome is due not to racism as the extraordinarity record of marital fidelity by the wives of Kohanim. The status of being a Kohen is transmitted in the male line by hereditary descent only. Converts cannot become Kohanim, so this is irrelevant.


Also, Europe from late antiquity into modern times was not a hospitable environment for changing religions nor for the intermarriage of religious groups. A Christian person who converted to another religion would have been guilty of apostasy and liable to death. Non-Christian religions that proselytized and sought out converts would likewise be dealt with lethally. Still - obviously from the genetic record - conversions and intermarriage did occur. It seems contradictory to accuse a group of racism and disallowing intermarriage on racial grounds while at the same time claiming that the same group is the product of racial intermarriage.


Also, my main point remains that peoplehood is not exclusively based on genes but shared memes.


I agree that the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 was a profound mistake and I think the world - both Jews and Gentiles - would be a lot better off if it had not occurred. Still, your genetic arguments - assuming they were true - do not negate the existence of a Jewish people claiming the right to national self-determination.


 

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