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Switch to Forum Live View The mind vs. the brain and the Shaman
6 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2008 - 7:41AM #1
kraventhearcher
Posts: 170
I was watching Larry King Live last night (http://us.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/) by pure chance, since I'm not a regular viewer. The focus of the program was the brain and the power of the mind.

An important distinction was made by a couple of the panelists, particularly one quantum physics expert (affectionately known as Dr.Quantum), that the brain is an organ and the "mind" exists outside of time and space. He even went so far as to say that his research had led him to believe very different things about reality than he had ever considered.

How do you view the connection between the body and the mind? Are they the same, with one being a function of a physical organ in a physical universe? Or, is there a bridge that is constructed by the Shaman to allow the mind to interact with time/space in ways we never previously considered and to download that information into the physical brain?

And, are entheogens and/or trance simply there to open the physical door of the organ for interaction with the "mind" itself so that you can experience its potential?

Is quantum physics just now beginning to be able to get a glimpse into what the Shaman has been doing all these thousands of years?
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2008 - 10:38PM #2
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
There ia  a lot of physical evidence that different patterns of brain waves accompany shamanic trances.

So whether the mind is separate from the brain the brain is still affected/involved.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2008 - 5:26PM #3
kraventhearcher
Posts: 170
[QUOTE=Whisperingal;667038]There ia  a lot of physical evidence that different patterns of brain waves accompany shamanic trances.

So whether the mind is separate from the brain the brain is still affected/involved.[/QUOTE]

Sure. The brain has to be involved at some level. At least that's my presumption. Othewise, no substances would be need. Even natural internal ones (seratonin).

But, the idea that the mind exists outside time/space reality is pretty mind-blowing. so to speak.

I'm elbow deep in some quantum research and will probably be eaten alive by questions pretty soon.

There is a lot of research being conducted on Alpha waves, at present.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 2:03AM #4
leftuncheckd
Posts: 200

kraventhearcher wrote:

But, the idea that the mind exists outside time/space reality is pretty mind-blowing. so to speak. .



Mr Bow man:
>>I think the real idea or question might be: Is there an Outside of this time/space reality?
>>Does the mind ever leave this universe, even in death?

<>>I can only speculate that the length of time between death and rebirth is so small that it is unmeasurable. It never leaves this time/space reality.

>>Also I can be fairly certain, that our universe sits inside a "type of dimension" as yet unexplainable, and that nothing of this universe ever leaves that dimension...even in a spiritual form. Death is not the portal. There is a portal, and you don't necessarily have to be dead to use it. I've been through the portal twice. Once to get there and once to return and I was very much alive and in body. The entrance was an elevator on East 63rd st, going up inbetween 2nd and 3rd floor in KC, Mo and I came out on a highway (92 I think) outside Tracy, Mo. The trip was unplanned. But it was Very real.

(#)

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 10:56AM #5
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136
Thank God a new thread!!!!

Kraven:
“But, the idea that the mind exists outside time/space reality is pretty mind-blowing.”

If the mind (or anything is outside time/space) there is no way to possibly prove or disprove is existence in a normal scientific or pragmatic fashion.

However as WG pointed out there are measurable effects on the brain pertaining to shamanic journeywork.  Suggesting that the phenomenon that is being discussed at least originates within the brain.
Where it goes from there is purely speculation at this point. 

Kraven:

“And, are entheogens and/or trance simply there to open the physical door of the organ for interaction with the "mind" itself so that you can experience its potential?” 

I personally have experienced entheogens as an “appointment”? I have also experienced other forms of journeywork (sonic drivers, fasting, journey hiking) as the same.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 12:00PM #6
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
Kraven--it's my understanding that Theta and Beta waves are also involved in trance--so I think it's even more complicated than some might think it is.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 12:11PM #7
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
Kraven--a further thought--if we think of everything as energy--

--is this connection really so mysterious?

Personally it doesn't seem so to me.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 7:21PM #8
kraventhearcher
Posts: 170
WG- No, in the respect that everything is a form of energy, I wouldn't be surprised. But, I'm a very hands on mechanic type person.
The first thing I do when I buy a new gun or carburetor or other doohickey is to disassemble it to see what the parts look like and to see how they were finished (and how well). I like the nuts and bolts. And, when I can't be journeying, I like to think about it. Though, I'll admit that the quantum physics is over my head- way over.
But, it's fun to ponder.

Redfrog:
"If the mind (or anything is outside time/space) there is no way to possibly prove or disprove is existence in a normal scientific or pragmatic fashion.

However as WG pointed out there are measurable effects on the brain pertaining to shamanic journeywork. Suggesting that the phenomenon that is being discussed at least originates within the brain.
Where it goes from there is purely speculation at this point. "
True. But, if the "mind" exists outside time space, then where do we really live or exist?

Leftunchekd:
That's a really meaty thing to ponder. hmmm...
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 11:36PM #9
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
"Where do we live or exist?"

Since energy is everywhere--that's where we exist too.

IMO we have been--mostly by culture--been brainwashed (sorry I couldn' resist that) to think in material terms only when we talk about "existence."

It even extends to discussions that believers have about the specifics of "heaven."



Btw--IMO your insistence on knowing all aspects of your tools of trade are a superb example of your survival instinct.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2008 - 3:45AM #10
leftuncheckd
Posts: 200
>>Energy is spent, burned, consumed and eventually used up.  We are in no way a form of energy.
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