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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 9:13AM #41
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=EagleFae;436815]Christian Wicca?  I am afraid to say no such combination of religions could exist.  While it may be possible there can be a Christian Witch (a practice of witchcraft based on folk magic without any religious connotation), Gardner intended "Wica", his vision of a religion of Witchcraft, to be a polytheistic, Pagan, Initiatory Mystery Religion.  Both theologies are simply inconsistent and incompatable.[/QUOTE]

This is probably more what you didn't write than anything else and I do agree about the Religion of Wicca (Witchcraft) and Christianity being incompatiable.

It is important to note that Wicca is only one Pagan Witchcraft Tradition today. As not all Pagan Witchcraft Traditions are religious or spiritual, it is still possible for certain Pagan Witches to align his or her practise within Christianity or any other religion. 

Plus there are also a handful of indigenous practices we call witchcraft that are religious while being aligned within the framework of Christianity.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 9:38AM #42
Sakhaiva
Posts: 942
Thanks for clearing the air CH.  I've been wondering why people would try to(want to) blend polytheism with monotheism...

Oddly, I wonder what is it about Spring that sends people to Paganism? Has anyone else noticed that?  Regardless, it gives me hope that perhaps humanity has not lost complete touch with the natural....

Peace.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 10:44AM #43
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
I think one of the reasons is that some people don't see Christianity as monotheistic. In a way, I can understand that. It has a very full pantheon, it is just all the supernatural beings aren't called gods, if you look at it like that. Plus there were the heretical offshoot that believed that there were three Christian gods, Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 11:29AM #44
Sakhaiva
Posts: 942
Well said Gilly.  Taking a step away from the gods/godhead, you've reminded me of a book I was given years ago that parallelled *angels* across faith lines... the 'Christian' line up,  the 'Zoroastrianism' etc etc....  it was interesting to see all of the 'cross-culture borrowing'  weaving its way across the pages...

Dionysius and his (transposed) neoplatonic thinking is woven in there too...  humans have an amazing ability to adapt.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 3:19PM #45
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634
You should see the thread on one of the Science and Religion boards, whereby the OP declared that Christianity was an ancient pagan religion with all of the qualifications thereof.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2008 - 3:22PM #46
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

TheWhiteHart wrote:

You should see the thread on one of the Science and Religion boards, whereby the OP declared that Christianity was an ancient pagan religion with all of the qualifications thereof.





Was this a thread saying "Yay, Christianity's pagan,"  or "Christianity is stupid and pagan?" 
I can see someone trying to make either argument.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 3:36PM #47
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634
The former. I don't recall it being the latter, at any rate.

http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14027
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2008 - 6:47PM #48
EagleFae
Posts: 9
Apologies for not responding sooner.  I have had some posting difficulties on Belief.net

C.H., I do recognize there are other Traditions Pagan Witchcraft out there, Wicca being but one whole Tradition in and of itself.

I am not sure what you mean, however, when you say that are not all religious or spiritual.  Are you referring to Pagan Traditions that focus solely on practice regarding folklore and the "Cunning Folk?" 

I do agree that other Pagan Witchcraft Traditions can still be able to align their practices to Christianity.  However, i think this is very hard to do since both the Old and the New Testament are quite vehement on the matter of magic and Pagan religions in general.

Now, are the indigenous practices called witchcraft for the sake of Anthropological convenience?  Shamanism is regarded as a utilization by anthropologists as a cross cultural term for the sake of classifiction.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 8:38AM #49
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
I'm glad your posting problems have been resolved.

Based on my research to date, the Cunning Folk were Christians whose chief occupation was protecting people from the evil of witches. Some of their practices (though none unique/copyrighted that I know of) were borrowed into modern Pagan Witchcraft in the 20th century. And folklore, both documented and speculative, was and is one of the primary sources for those creating the modern Paganism Movement. So anyone who practices anything within Paganism can trace influences back to these sources.

What I was referring to is that amongst the diversity of modern Pagan Witchcraft Traditions that have evolved out of these and similar sources, there are Traditions that are not religious or spiritual in orientation. The ‘traditions’ of Traditional Witchcraft for example, (modern IMO despite ethnic claims to indigenous antiquity), often do not include deities at all but do include elementals and (nature) spirits. Vocational Witchcraft on the other hand does not include deities, elementals or spirits and is a practical form of the Craft focused on study, service (usually healing), discipline and skills.

I agree it is hard but that seems to come down to how people use the Old and New Testaments rather than what they actually state. These texts use specific definitions of magic usually not applicable to what modern Pagans or others living today practice. Obviously the Old or New Testaments cannot make reference to modern Pagan religions. Such references, translations and interpretations that do exist refer to earlier or contemporary religions to Judaism and early Christianity or those that have been projected by subsequent generations onto a broad spectrum of beliefs, customs and traditions labelled with this term for various reasons. 

Anthropologists have yet to agree (the last time I looked anyway) about the use of terms such as witchcraft or shamanism. The use of the latter has certainly provoked some debate over the last couple of decades. I would suggest that indigenous practices tend to become labelled as witchcraft for differing reasons, perhaps because there are numerous definitions of witchcraft  to pick and choose from and perhaps due to linguistic, historical, local or cultural reasons.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2008 - 3:23PM #50
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,771
I don't think Incognitus truly knows what Wiccans do.
To say the bible is totally against what Wiccans do,  you would have to have a complete working knowledge as well as a Spiritual one.

You can only have that if you are one.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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