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7 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2007 - 6:35PM #1
seekerdrd
Posts: 98
Does anyone know anything about this? I've run across it in a couple of places, but it's always with just a cursory mention. I am curious as to the beliefs and traditions of someone who incorpoates both into their life.

David
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2007 - 7:53PM #2
Lunacie
Posts: 81
I think it would be much easier to be a Christian-Witch than to be honest to both Christianity and Wicca.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2007 - 1:56PM #3
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=seekerdrd;161150]Does anyone know anything about this? I've run across it in a couple of places, but it's always with just a cursory mention. I am curious as to the beliefs and traditions of someone who incorpoates both into their life.

David[/QUOTE]
seekerdrd,

The short answer here is that anyone is free to call he or she whatever they wish and/or to customize these two religions as he or she wishes. However, no one is entitled to be recognized as either Christian or Wiccan by doing so. Those who do so tend to be individuals who are not willing to commit to either religion completely. Sometimes they genuinely believe that just because something is labeled Wiccan for instance, practicing it in another context still makes it Wiccan and in turn, making them Wiccans.

The longer answer is that a religion can be defined as follows. Each has a non-negotiable core definition of the Divine out of which its specific structure as a religion evolved and continues to evolve. Together the core and the structure make each religion unique from all others. That structure may over time diversify into specific ‘traditions’ that are distinct in practice from one from another but still recognizable as that specific religion because the tradition also contains the core and the essential markers of that religion’s structure.  A religion to be considered established must have been transmitted down through at least two generations. A shared religion must be able to be transmitted in a coherent and integrated system that can then be practiced by others. The structure of a religion usually consists of a annual celebratory calendar, spiritual principles, moral tenets or guidelines, life passage rites (birth, marriage, death etc) and often a mythology that explains the relationship between humankind, the Divine and the universe. Both Wicca and Christianity meet this definition.

However, Christianity and Wicca have opposing core definitions of the Divine. To blend or customize a core produces something that is neither religion. From those cores, their structures evolved. However, please remember that the structure of religions reflects basic human needs, desires and purposes. As a result and with specific exceptions, what goes into enacting any religion's structure - celebrations, beliefs, rituals, tools, trappings, customs - tend to be universal in application and not copyrighted to any one religion. At the same time, this doesn’t make these interchangeable between religions. What makes something Christian is that it is practiced within the framework of the core definition of Christianity and enacted through a Christian structure. What makes something Wiccan is that it is practiced within the framework of the core definition of Wicca and enacted through a Wiccan structure. So labeling something as Wiccan and practicing it as a Christian within a Christian framework doesn’t make anyone recognizable as being Wiccan or that something as practicing Wicca and visa versa.

The sacred annual celebratory calendars of Christianity and Wicca are also different but they both touch on the same range of human purposes and draw from a common tapestry of human history. Each religion has its own spiritual principles that draw from the legacy of humankind and each has moral tenets or guidelines that do the same. Each honors the passages of life with specific rites that integrate back into the framework of their religions.

Another key difference is in the purpose of mythology. Within a revealed religion such as Christianity mythology is held to be the word of God revealed in writing as scripture, theology, doctrine. The practitioners of any revealed religion base the validity of their faith on that which is held to be revealed. In an experiential mystery religion such as Wicca, the validity of the faith comes from and must be experienced by first hand participation by those to whom the religion has been properly transmitted/taught. All that can be written about Wicca are second- or third-hand accounts that at best provide basic information about the core and structure and at worst, mis-represent a personal interpretation or opinion as the Religion of Wicca.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 25, 2007 - 10:16AM #4
Lunacie
Posts: 81
As usual, Creaky wrote an excellent response. But I'm going to say here that at one point there wasn't all that much difference between the way we all saw the divine - which is why there are so many gods and goddesses who have similar attributes but are known by different names in different areas.

Before the Nicean Council put the bible together as a definitive word of God, God was seen as encompassing all things, and was both male and female rather than the uber father figure that has emerged. Subsequent translations (and I use the term lightly in some cases) omitted any reference to the divine being female at all.

But - that was then and this is now.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 8:49PM #5
AutumnFrost
Posts: 3
It is my belief that one cannot be a "Christian-Wiccan". It is also my belief that a person that states they are a "Christian-Wiccan" is a person that is attracted to Wicca for it's ritual and beliefs, but a person who is afraid of going to Hell so the person hangs on to the belief of Jesus being the Son of God just in case. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but it's usually the case.

I once thought I could integrate the two "just in case", but I've come to realize that integrating two religions is, in fact, impossible. Now, there are those who would argue with me that Witchcraft is a religion, however, I believe it to be a spiritual path considering Witchcraft does not have specific gods and/or goddesses required to worship and Witchcraft does not require a practitioner to have solid one-way-directed beliefs in an afterlife. Witchcraft is one of those things that you can attach to a religion. Like a Wiccan witch (one who is Wiccan but practices witchcraft) or a Buddhist witch, Taoist witch, and so on and so forth.

Religions are called so and not "just a spiritual path" because there are laws, tenets, expectations, specific conceptions of an afterlife, and a set of morality and ethics that comes along with it. You cannot combine the laws of Christianity and of Wicca together. Wiccans belief in the duality of the Deity, whereas Christianity plainly does not. Wiccans revere and worship Nature, where Christianity plainly states in the Ten Commandments that there should be no other idols other than God (in other words, Christianity does not allow for the worship of God's creation, but ONLY of God). A lot of Wiccans believe that Jesus was either an all-around good guy or just a prophet, but not the actual son of the Deity. Christianity requires that a follower recognizes and truly believes that Jesus is, in fact, the Son of God.

In conclusion, I must kindly disagree with CreakyHedgewitch and say that you cannot, in fact, customize these two religions as you wish. Christianity is too strict in nature to allow for any customization other than its denominations, but those denominations stay within the walls of the Ten Commandments and the Bible, which does not allow for the belief that there are truths in any religions other than Christianity itself. Wicca and Christianity are like two different species, and we all know that different species cannot integrate. You are either Christian or you are not. If you mix Christianity and Wicca then you must call this path something completely different for it is neither of the two religions but a completely different one indeed.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 8:17AM #6
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244

In conclusion, I must kindly disagree with CreakyHedgewitch and say that you cannot, in fact, customize these two religions as you wish.



Actually I don’t believe we are in disagreement at all. Up until this statement, you and I were almost completely in agreement, except in your belief that ‘Wiccans revere and worship Nature’. That is an author-imposed interpretation and isn’t meant to be part of that Religion as properly practised. I would also suggest that if one looks at the broader spectrum of what may or may not be considered Christianity, such does allow for customisation beyond its recognised denominations. However, that is a different religious topic.

I believe you have simply interpreted my opening sentence differently than its intended meaning and hence believe that we are in disagreement. What I actually said was:

The short answer here is that anyone is free to call he or she whatever they wish and/or to customise these two religions as he or she wishes.



I agree with you that one cannot effectively or meaningfully customise these two religions. The specific point however I was first trying to make was that no one can prevent anyone else from trying to do so. In other words, any individual is free to try to customise these two religions ‘as he or she wishes’ just as you yourself tried. Any individual is free to call whatever results as Christian-Wicca. How indeed could anyone stop them until and/or unless they seek external authority or approval or recognition for doing so? The hybrid result the individual creates however wouldn’t be recognised as either truly Christianity or Wicca.

Respectfully,
C.H.
P.S. I also appreciate the point you were trying to make with your example of species.  Did you know that one of the (biological) definitions of species is that of a taxonomic group whose members can interbreed?

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 05, 2008 - 6:29PM #7
AutumnFrost
Posts: 3
[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;186447]
Respectfully,
C.H.
P.S. I also appreciate the point you were trying to make with your example of species.  Did you know that one of the (biological) definitions of species is that of a taxonomic group whose members can interbreed?[/QUOTE]

Precisely. A group of members which can interbreed within their own species... Hmm, I see what you're saying here: that the fact Christianity and Wicca are both, indeed, of the same "species" (being religions) that they are able to "interbreed". Interesting concept.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 1:48PM #8
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=AutumnFrost;190540]Precisely. A group of members which can interbreed within their own species... Hmm, I see what you're saying here: that the fact Christianity and Wicca are both, indeed, of the same "species" (being religions) that they are able to "interbreed". Interesting concept.[/QUOTE]

Also exactly the opposite point I was striving to make and most definitely not what I was saying. (sigh). Please feel free to ask at any time if you wish to know what it was I meant.  I am always glad to clarify further.

The PS was made simply for this reason. One of the valid definition of species is ALSO that of members of a larger group that are able to interbreed. So the example of Wicca and Christianity being two species that cannot interbreed was factually incorrect - but only because species can ALSO be defined as those that can and do interbreed.

For the record, I do not consider the analogy of religions being species to be workable for that reason and I don't consider Wicca and Christianity to be able to able to interbreed - not without becoming a sterile mutation that is recognisable as either Christianty or Wicca.

Respectfully,
C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 8:09PM #9
AutumnFrost
Posts: 3
[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;192288]Also exactly the opposite point I was striving to make and most definitely not what I was saying. (sigh). Please feel free to ask at any time if you wish to know what it was I meant.  I am always glad to clarify further.

The PS was made simply for this reason. One of the valid definition of species is ALSO that of members of a larger group that are able to interbreed. So the example of Wicca and Christianity being two species that cannot interbreed was factually incorrect - but only because species can ALSO be defined as those that can and do interbreed.

For the record, I do not consider the analogy of religions being species to be workable for that reason and I don't consider Wicca and Christianity to be able to able to interbreed - not without becoming a sterile mutation that is recognisable as either Christianty or Wicca.

Respectfully,
C.H.[/QUOTE]

I'm beginning to take your posts as saying that I'm incapable of understanding you. My point was this: two DIFFERENT species cannot breed; it is genetically impossible. A fox cannot breed with a dog, albeit they are cousins because their genetics are too different. Humans cannot breed with apes, and although it is said that we are somewhat related genetically it is still impossible because our genetics do not match up.

Now, if you are saying INTERbreed instead of BREED then I must correct myself in saying that species can INTERbreed but not breed with other species. I hope that clears that up.

As with what you said about "sterile mutations" and what have you... Yeah, that was exactly what I was trying to say in my very first post to this thread.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 8:40AM #10
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
You are quite capable of understanding me. It is just the semantics that trip us up now and then.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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