Post Reply
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Mohammed the Unitarian
7 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2007 - 9:06PM #1
catboxer
Posts: 14,012
Edward Gibbon's description of Mohammed's God says, "The prophet of Mecca rejected the worship of idols and men, of stars and planets, on the rational principle that whatever rises must set, that whatever is born must die, that whatever is corruptible must decay and perish. In the author of the universe, his rational enthusiasm confessed and adored an infinite and eternal being without form or place, without issue or similitude, present to our most secret thoughts, existing by the necessity of his own nature, and deriving from himself all moral and intellectual perfection. These sublime truths, thus announced in the language of the prophet, are firmly held by his disciples, and defined with metaphysical precision by the interpreters of the Koran. A philosophic theist might subscribe the creed of the Mohammedans; a creed too sublime, perhaps, for our present faculties. What object remains for the fancy, or even the understanding, when we have abstracted from the unknown substance all ideas of time and space, of motion and matter, of sensation and reflection? The first principle of reason and revolution was confirmed by the voice of Mohammed: his proselytes, from India to Morocco, are distinguished by the name of Unitarians; and the danger of idolatry has been prevented by the interdiction of images."

Sounds like Unitarianism to me.

Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Chapter L, "Description of Arabia and Its Inhabitants,"
Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2007 - 3:51PM #2
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
Yeah, well, it's ever been that the problems arise from the followers and frequently not from the prophet or original teachings. All that interpretation down through the years is what gets gnarly, IMO.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2008 - 1:33AM #3
dorianrex
Posts: 35
Originally, Mohammed insisted that his vision was only for the Arabs. He taught that Allah had sent prophets to each nation and that religions should not forcibly convert. In latter years, sadly, he did push his message on the Arab people when they rejected him.
But it's unique that we know so much of Muhammad's human foibles. If we knew all the facts on Moses and Jesus... hm....
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2008 - 11:52AM #4
Jazzcat
Posts: 18
I couldn't agree more, Deep Thought!
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2008 - 12:28PM #5
omprem
Posts: 204
[QUOTE=catboxer;151935]Edward Gibbon's description of Mohammed's God says, "The prophet of Mecca rejected the worship of idols and men, of stars and planets, on the rational principle that whatever rises must set, that whatever is born must die, that whatever is corruptible must decay and perish. In the author of the universe, his rational enthusiasm confessed and adored an infinite and eternal being without form or place, without issue or similitude, present to our most secret thoughts, existing by the necessity of his own nature, and deriving from himself all moral and intellectual perfection. These sublime truths, thus announced in the language of the prophet, are firmly held by his disciples, and defined with metaphysical precision by the interpreters of the Koran. A philosophic theist might subscribe the creed of the Mohammedans; a creed too sublime, perhaps, for our present faculties. What object remains for the fancy, or even the understanding, when we have abstracted from the unknown substance all ideas of time and space, of motion and matter, of sensation and reflection? The first principle of reason and revolution was confirmed by the voice of Mohammed: his proselytes, from India to Morocco, are distinguished by the name of Unitarians; and the danger of idolatry has been prevented by the interdiction of images."

Sounds like Unitarianism to me.

Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Chapter L, "Description of Arabia and Its Inhabitants,"[/QUOTE]


Not quite. Unitarians do worship idols, namely themselves. As a group, they are the most self-absorbed, ego-driven people I have met. Their atheist/skeptic contingent adds a level of mean-spiritedness, if not malevolence, that is not found elsewhere.

One could say that UU is either religion lite or not a religion at all but a tax-free social club.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2008 - 5:15PM #6
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

omprem wrote:

One could say that UU is either religion lite or not a religion at all but a tax-free social club.



To each hir own.

One can equally well say that one person's deeply held faith is another's anathema, whatever purpose doing so may serve.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2008 - 10:23PM #7
omprem
Posts: 204
[QUOTE=Deep Thought;309116]Hi There

This is interesting. I became interested in Islam when I reaslised I believed in something that didn't fit with Christianity. I like the main philosphy and the emphasis on the Old Testament way of thinking. The thing that puts me off is the over praising Mohammed and the fixed Idea of Heaven and Hell. There are a few Christian ideas that fit better with me too, but mostly my ideas are Islam, Old Testament, Pantheist with a tiny bit of Christianity, the ideas that Jesus taught.

At the end of the day we are all human and should respect each others faith. The Qur'an says if you disagree in matters of faith walk away, it is between "God" and the individual.

I think I am UU because I believe in something, so I am not agonostic.

It's good to see postivity about Islam, there is so much negativity at the moment...[/QUOTE]

In Islam there is no fixed idea of Heaven and Hell any more than there is a notion of Allah as an individuated entity. There may be a watered down version for the minds of children but the deeper Islam, i.e. Sufism, is in sync with the Kabbalists of Judaism, the Contemplative Christians and the Advaita Vendatins of Hinduism and sees Heaven and Hell as states of  individuated consciousness and Allah as Cosmic Consciousness.

The negativity re Islam is mostly concentrated in the fundamentalist branches such Wahabbism just as the negativity of all religions can be found in their fundamentalist offshoots.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2008 - 12:04AM #8
visio
Posts: 3,252

omprem wrote:

In Islam there is no fixed idea of Heaven and Hell any more than there is a notion of Allah as an individuated entity. There may be a watered down version for the minds of children but the deeper Islam, i.e. Sufism, is in sync with the Kabbalists of Judaism, the Contemplative Christians and the Advaita Vendatins of Hinduism and sees Heaven and Hell as states of individuated consciousness and Allah as Cosmic Consciousness.

The negativity re Islam is mostly concentrated in the fundamentalist branches such Wahabbism just as the negativity of all religions can be found in their fundamentalist offshoots.



Greetings! omprem,
To me .......... you couldn't have said it better.  Thank You.

Salaam

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2008 - 12:04AM #9
visio
Posts: 3,252

omprem wrote:

In Islam there is no fixed idea of Heaven and Hell any more than there is a notion of Allah as an individuated entity. There may be a watered down version for the minds of children but the deeper Islam, i.e. Sufism, is in sync with the Kabbalists of Judaism, the Contemplative Christians and the Advaita Vendatins of Hinduism and sees Heaven and Hell as states of individuated consciousness and Allah as Cosmic Consciousness.

The negativity re Islam is mostly concentrated in the fundamentalist branches such Wahabbism just as the negativity of all religions can be found in their fundamentalist offshoots.



Greetings! omprem,
To me .......... you couldn't have said it better.  Thank You.

Salaam

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2008 - 12:22PM #10
omprem
Posts: 204
"Deep Thought", and I use that term advisedly, perhaps one can say that "any religious gathering is a social gathering of like minded people which is tax free" but that would be a supterficial description of other religions as the main purpose for their congregating is not social but transcendence. In addition, one cannot also say of other religions that they " worship idols, namely themselves" and "As a group, they are the most self-absorbed, ego-driven people I have met." Those descriptions apply exclusively to UUs.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook