Shalom Agnosticspirit,

Good thread to start with here. First of all it is all allegory, or in other words that is not the historic Cephas (Peter), Myryam (Mary), or Yeshua (Jesus) for that matter. I like to use their more original namesakes for these interactions. I don't like what the RCC did to their names to make them less of their true origins from Yerusalem and surrounding areas.

Peter "The Rock" represents the orthodox or hardness of the church and what it had become. That is why Yeshua is portrayed as telling him he is a rock in the first place. The church leaders in Yerusalem had become fossilized in their thinking and actions so Peter is set up to represent that voice you might say.

What Yeshua is referring to here is the divine marriage within the Tree of Life.

I'll try to reconstruct it because I couldn't get my file to download on the forum. There are twelve spheres on the tree interlocking with each other through the star of David.

Top Sphere: Heavenly KIngdom

Just below that but above the next two is Intellect

The two opposing ones now on the two upper corners of the star are left side: Understanding and right side: Wisdom.

Below those in the center is Knowledge.

Below that where the two triangles of the Star intersect are left: Judgement and right: Mercy

Below that center is Love (divine love not emotive love)

Below that in the lower two corners of the Star are left: Logic and right: Intuition

Below that center is Foundation

Finally on the bottom of the Tree on the bottom point of the Star is Earthly Kingdom.

Now what does this all mean. Well it is difficult to explain to one who is unfamiliar with this and I am still learning myself. So I'll give you what I know.

Each sphere has two opposing vibrations: male and female. Yeshua referred to them as the Bridegroom and Bride going into the Wedding Chamber. (Matt. Chpt. 25 I believe). The Earthly Kingdom is here and is your school ground for learning. One must learn to move through the Tree at various levels through experiences from both you past and present. The present being of utmost importance for that is where change can occur.

Yeshua spoke of the Foundation in the parable of the Sower. You must build up through a three form expression of mind, body, and spirit or better yet spirit mind, spirit body, and spirit spirit. Yea I know...what the??? Patience is a virtue when it comes to the "work" that one must do to do true change. That is why I refer to so many as organic or mechanical because waving you arms around in a church is not the true "work" Ya'akov was referring to in his letter. One cannot simply say I have faith and that is all. Ya'akov said, "faith without works is dead". Now that is some powerful stuff. The church took all this away and put the priests back in charge when the true teacher is within.

This is enough for now.

Peter M.

P.S. I know that the women that were in the Ebionite communities were treated like goddesses for it is through them that new life is brought forth into the world. The one's in the other forum I belong to are certainly treated that way. No male domination exists over there and those who push that are corrected quickly. Also what I have below refers to the Tree of Life and being in the middle looking down and up at the same time.

Shalom Agnosticspirit,

The twelve spheres of the Tree of Life are paralleled in the 12 tribes of Israel and 12 disciples and even to some aspect the 12 months of the year. Part of the reason for the two fold aspect of some parts of the tree are the male/female polarity of them. G-d is often referred to by the Gnostics as the All-Parent of Father/Mother for G-d is both male and female and neither male nor female but one. Yeshua spoke of this in the Gospel that the Ebionites used and can be seen the Gospel of the Nazirenes.

Yeshua himself never married because he was the fulfillment of the Law he was both male and female and neither male nor female but had become one with G-d. In a true marriage of husband and wife, they become one in a similar manner with the male lifting up or complementing the weaker aspects of the female the female lifting up or complementing the weaker aspects of the male. It is more of a sense of oneness really.

In the other forum I belong to, The_Way_of_the_Disciple, is run by several people who are themselves Gnostics or in communication with their higher soul-self. They know themselves as we strive to come to know our true selves or only real teacher. Allan Cronshaw and his wife, Flo, have been a couple many times over many life times. Their souls make what is best to describe as a team for they work in tandem on helping others see what is inner. They used to help people by using their abilities in taking people on an inward journey to the Realm of the Souls where the true souls live. Yes this sounds like sci-fi or something, but reality is much stranger than you could ever imagine. The human organic mind isn't always ready for such things and that is why Yeshua spoke in parables to compare what is above with what is below.

The seekers of TheWay also come into balance by raising up the lower three natures: animal, vegetable, and mineral, to walk in TheWay. Gurus and Yogis deny this lower nature and only focus on the upper nature and stay in a state of mind that stares at the upper lights of the astral realm while never engaging the lower natures to walk in TheWay. G-d never demanded that we become celibate monks, but to find a mate that can complement our growth through the cycles of life to the upper.

Actually Peterthesplitfish had to do with me being a pisces, but I like you little analogy. But we are like fish swimming through the waters of life. Yeshua rose above the waters and that is why he 'walked' on the waters because he had been cleansed and fulfilled the Laws. One must part the waters too to cross over to the other side in the inner.

Yeshua was not a monk but got where he was by being a part of a community of both men and women who walked in TheWay and allowed him to do what he had to do. These men and women were couples working on the  Laws within themselves and many more of them were able to enter the "Holy of Holies" and speak to their higher soul-self or true-self.

The church will eventually fall because of the Laws. The libraries of the Ebionites will eventually be found and prove what the church did to the original scriptures, but the writings of the mystics today will also be corrupted because of the Laws. Very few see what the scriptures really say and even fewer find the true teacher within that replaces any written words. This is a grand time for you to take advantage of before the next wave of repressers come and takes our rights away.

Be patient and understanding will come. I was once as you and as many, but I kept listening to my inner voice of consciousness and now I am here instead of on the streets. If I could tell you how much I've changed internally I would, but that is personal experience that must be experienced by yourself. I can share information, but I am not a teacher or guru. There is only one, and it is inside of you. I can facilitate learning but steering you in various directions, but you must take the reins for yourself.

Keep up the good work!

Peter M.

Thanks for the thumbnail Peter! At least I can see the pattern, is the text in Hebrew or do I need to get a new prescription for my glasses? :)

Much to ponder, I'm still trying to formulate more questions now that I have a visual. History of  early Christianity, the paths of religion from polytheism to monotheism, mythology  are endlessly fascinating!

Now am I gonna go to hell because I don't believe? ;)  Somehow I don't think your guys would send me there. I completely agree the journey is within, the wisdom is within and the enlightenment is there as well.

Kind regards,

----agnosticspirit

Howdy, wanted to start a separate thread to discuss this quote from the Gospel of Thomas. OK, so the Gospel of Thomas is supposed to be allegory, but why on earth does woman have to be transformed into man to get into heaven? Why????

First of all, it has a different form than much of the gospel. Here Peter doesn't ask a question, but actually gives a command. Peter, aka “rocky,” is often the butt of Gnostic humor. This can be read as something of a wisdom joke on Peter, responding to his ignorance. It can be understood within the cultural context, that is, we can understand it from the context of Peter's point of view. In the ancient Mediterranean culture, particularly within Jewish culture, women were seen as inferior so Peter can be seen as expressing a cultural objection. So, Jesus states that this will be rectified through following the way.


However, there is a deeper level that corresponds to the earlier passage in Thomas 22 where the disciples ask how they shall enter the kingdom.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

We can see a repetition of the “make male and female into a single one” as part of the means of entering the kingdom. This is bringing one's own male and female aspects into a wholeness that is neither only male nor only female. Undergoing such a transformation is part of everyone's process of entering the kingdom.


So, what Jesus says about Mary is true on all of these levels, just not in the way that Peter (the culture) thinks. (That's the joke on him.)