| 5 years ago :: Jul 21, 2008 - 11:41PM #1 | |
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I haven't posted here in a long time :-). First I'd like to express my respect for the Orthodox tradition. I'll get straight to my question after a brief explanation: I don't wish to excuse myself, only explain my situation. I'm 19, and I was raised by four very individualistic parents. I have never attended a church regularly, and I'm unbaptized. With as much as I know (having studied Church History a lot), I cannot plead the ignorance of which type maybe some might be redeemed outside the Church, according to the Catholic Church, at least. Either way, I can only plead that I don't know exactly what I believe, and have always fallen down on this subject.
My concern lies solely in the doctrine or general belief in the Church as the ark of salvation. I have such a hard time with this. I understand that in Eastern Orthodoxy, you believe that man is redeemed as a part of a community, not as an individual. That community, of course, is the church. But I have also read acknowledgments from traditional Orthodox writers that by God's divine mercy, some who were not in the Church militant will be found in the Church triumphant...and of course, if I may borrow from Catholicism and assume Orthodoxy teaches likewise, then the reverse may also be true; that corrupt people exist in the Church on earth, and won't be "known" by our Lord on the other side. So this is my sticky wicket: If my assumptions about Orthodox teaching are correct, that it is possible by God's mercy that some souls outside the Church on earth, will be found in the Church in heaven, and vice versa....then I can't help but think that the very final, deciding factor in a man's redemption, is his individual status before our Lord, and not his being in the community that is the Church. I know this sounds terribly Evangelical...and I did used to be one, but I hope you will understand that I'm not anymore, but I just can't overcome this mindset, as much as every other aspect of Orthodoxy seems so wonderful to me. I don't think it would be very honest of me to go to my local Orthodox church, asking for baptism and entrance, when I don't even believe that this is necessary. I know I'm terribly prideful for contradicting 2,000 years of sacred tradition and the church fathers; but I have a very postmodern western mind; so I hope you will not mind tolerating me. Thank you, Evan |
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| 5 years ago :: Jul 22, 2008 - 1:37PM #2 | |
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| 5 years ago :: Jul 23, 2008 - 3:43PM #3 | |
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Howdy Andy!
Thanks for your advice. I really appreciated what you said about the Church as helping mold us to a more communal mindset; that's a really good point. I agree with you...that as far as my limited logic can carry me, it seems that we won't be able to change on the other side; either that or God won't let us. It does kind of seem that once we get to the judgment, we can't really turn back. I appreciate what the article said about the Good Samaritan story as the story of our redemption...though I must say, I think a presupposition about the Church being the ark of salvation helps one to appreciate it more, something I don't have right now. May I digress temporarily while I'm thinking about another question that's important to me? It may be a slightly more trivial issue, but I'm a patriotic American, and I felt slightly uncomfortable when I was briefly visiting a ROCOR Church in my general area. The people were very polite and decent, of course, but there seemed to be an almost one-sided praise and attention to the mother Russia that existed before the Communists destroyed the place. I'm not racist or anything, but I'm also not terribly fond of Russian culture, during the reign of the Tsars or the Communists. Please don't misunderstand me, I do appreciate Slavonic Christian history very much; I appreciate the beginning of Christianity in that area, and that the Russian's preserved the Greek Church's ideas. But I don't feel much allegiance at all to any Tsar or otherwise from that culture. I appreciated it in the Catholic Church where they seem to at least be loyal to our country, praying for our soldiers, etc. So I guess my question is, why should I join a Church that seems, besides worshipping our Lord, of course, all to quick to pontificate about mother Russia, while not seeming to at least nod to our own country, which gives them the freedom to function so openly? Are all Orthodox Churches like this, or have I made an error in my thinking along the way? Cordially, Evan |
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| 5 years ago :: Jul 24, 2008 - 12:14PM #4 | |
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| 5 years ago :: Jul 24, 2008 - 7:07PM #5 | |
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Hi Andy,
Thank you for clarifying that. I'd like to point out that I didn't attend that Church for more than a few weeks, and so I'm sure I didn't get the full experience...I was just expressing my opinion that far into it. So you may be right, maybe all parishes are conscientious about that. I'm going to visit some relatives out of state, so I don't know if I'll be able to communicate via the internet this weekend, so I wanted to let you know I appreciate your time in answering these questions, and I'll definitely meditate on what you wrote. Just to let you know, when I was visiting the ROCOR Church, the priest asked me at one point if I wanted to be baptized. I was a pretty shy person back then, and not quick to be confrontational or anything of that nature, but I said "no," plain and simple. I can't remember if I explained myself, but the reason I was so blunt was because I knew I wasn't ready to commit myself to the Church...and I understood, that unlike Evangelicalism, baptism is a commitment not only to a lifestyle, but loyalty to the Church as well. I don't know why I felt the need to share that, but it felt right...maybe you have an observation? Haha, though perhaps not :-). Hopefully I'll speak to you soon. Peace, Evan |
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