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6 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2008 - 12:25AM #1
HinduGuy
Posts: 373
As a Hindu, what excites me about Karma and Rebirth is that it totally does away with Hell. I have always been uncomfortable with a God who tortures. God is no Saddam Husain!

But in the Gita, there is mention of Triloka, the 3 worlds, one of which is heaven, the other two are earthlike worlds and the universe above. There is no mention of Hell. There is no mention of Hell because there is no need for it. First of all, as I have said, God is not a torturer.

As you lead your life and do deeds both good and bad, you pick up good and bad karma. Each life is an opportunity to learn new lessons for God is a Parent and Teacher. It is important to realize that you are not going to be punished (again, God is not a slave-owner), you will be retaught patiently as any good teacher does when you screw up. Today we send criminals to jail, but they don't become better people once the come out, they get worse! God has a better plan, she is constantly teaching us so that we may become better people, and that is why we are born again and again, until we are enlightened. Some like Mahatma Gandhi attain Moksha, others like us need a few more  births and deaths.

But I am a bit surprised to see christians on this board, I don't see how this applies to them. According to their faith, they have only one life. It's either eternal heaven or hell after this.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2008 - 8:37AM #2
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
HinduGuy--many Christians are more involved with reincarnation than you might think. I suspect that asking rather than making assumptions would be the better route.

Sendiong good thoughts your way.
WGal
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2008 - 6:55PM #3
HinduGuy
Posts: 373
Whisper: One of the frustrating things about meeting any christian here in America is that invariably they seem to have a conversion pamphlet and invariably the conversation starts with my going to hell. Obviously I disagree, the same way I don't want to impose my faith on christians. I have read several christians and muslims post that rebirth and karma are not christianity or Islam, respectively. I am not sure that you can simply borrow from other faiths.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2008 - 7:26PM #4
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,710
[QUOTE=HinduGuy;634823]As a Hindu, what excites me about Karma and Rebirth is that it totally does away with Hell. I have always been uncomfortable with a God who tortures. God is no Saddam Husain!

But in the Gita, there is mention of Triloka, the 3 worlds, one of which is heaven, the other two are earthlike worlds and the universe above. There is no mention of Hell. There is no mention of Hell because there is no need for it. First of all, as I have said, God is not a torturer.

As you lead your life and do deeds both good and bad, you pick up good and bad karma. Each life is an opportunity to learn new lessons for God is a Parent and Teacher. It is important to realize that you are not going to be punished (again, God is not a slave-owner), you will be retaught patiently as any good teacher does when you screw up. Today we send criminals to jail, but they don't become better people once the come out, they get worse! God has a better plan, she is constantly teaching us so that we may become better people, and that is why we are born again and again, until we are enlightened. Some like Mahatma Gandhi attain Moksha, others like us need a few more  births and deaths.

But I am a bit surprised to see christians on this board, I don't see how this applies to them. According to their faith, they have only one life. It's either eternal heaven or hell after this.[/QUOTE]  In the vedic literatures there are mention of hellish worlds, in the Isopanisad it is said that those who are killers of the soul must enter the planets of the faithless which are full of ignarance and darkness. In the Bhagavid-gita fourteenth chapter verse 18 Krishna says those who die in the mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2008 - 12:50AM #5
pilahawaiian
Posts: 452
To me being reincarnated is Hell.

I REALLY hope I fix it this time around.

I LOVED it here, it has been paradise on Earth. This is just not the paradise i'm looking for.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2008 - 1:10PM #6
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

HinduGuy wrote:

Whisper: One of the frustrating things about meeting any christian here in America is that invariably they seem to have a conversion pamphlet and invariably the conversation starts with my going to hell. Obviously I disagree, the same way I don't want to impose my faith on christians. I have read several christians and muslims post that rebirth and karma are not christianity or Islam, respectively. I am not sure that you can simply borrow from other faiths.


It is not borrowing, we have several learned christian who can find some form of reincarnation in christian scripture, but whether you can or not, has nothing to do with borrowing. If you believe in reincarnation you believe, if you have some kind of experience that says you have lived before, you are going to believe it regardless to whether you are christian or not.
And you do not have to stop being christian to believe it.

All you have to know is that people read the scriptures differently.

I believe in reincarnation. It is not a religious thing I simply have had experiences that tell me I have been. I am not Hindu or christian.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2008 - 5:36PM #7
ManzanitaBear
Posts: 946
[QUOTE=HinduGuy;651707]One of the frustrating things about meeting any christian here in America is that invariably they seem to have a conversion pamphlet and invariably the conversation starts with my going to hell. [/QUOTE]
The people who hand out conversion pamphlets are the ones who proclaim the loudest that they're Christian--and they say it in such a way that it implies all other Christians are not really Christian.  The truth is, they're in the minority among Christians.  They're the ones who've hijacked the faith, so to speak.

Christianity and Islam may not teach reincarnation, but the scriptures don't come out and say there's no such thing, either.  And some Christians and Muslims may not think borrowing ideas from other faiths is permissible, but others do.

In fact, interpreting Jesus's words one way, he implied that John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2008 - 12:41AM #8
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
HinduGuy--hi.

I concur with the people who have posted above. It sounds like you're drawing conclusioons about all Christians from a few who insist on "witnessing" and trying to evangelize and convert.

A good place to start learning about the many different kinds of Christians--and about all he different philosophies and beliefs is to read abouty "Esoteric Cjhristianity."

I think you'll be surprised.
Sending good thoughts for you.
WGal

btw--Christianity has always had mystical elements from its very beginnings. Don't let the evangelizers try to tell you differently.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 4:59PM #9
koala972
Posts: 866
actually I'm a reincarnationist (?) but I believe in hell...  that being when I'm shoved into a life that makes me hurt very badly.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2008 - 12:25AM #10
visio
Posts: 3,319
[QUOTE=HinduGuy;651707]Whisper: One of the frustrating things about meeting any christian here in America is that invariably they seem to have a conversion pamphlet and invariably the conversation starts with my going to hell. Obviously I disagree, the same way I don't want to impose my faith on christians. I have read several christians and muslims post that rebirth and karma are not christianity or Islam, respectively. I am not sure that you can simply borrow from other faiths.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Hi HinduGuy,

I agree to what you said on the Muslim's take on reincarnation based on writing and commentaries made by most, if not all, Muslim scholars.  And I agree to another poster's comment a better feel would be asking individual Muslims their opinion about it.  A good opening question would be the belief about the End of the World  which, in Arabic, what Muslims referr to as the "Qiyamat".  There is a split about this "Qiyamat" thing.  Some interpret it as the literal meaning that there will be a physical End of this Material Universe.  Others believe it is meant as an End to one's (individual) life on this earth.  That split is already an indicator that the messages in the Islamic Al-Quran is not to be interpreted 100% as literal.  Like any other scriptures non-literal interpretation have to be explored.   This is where words from the spiritual experience of spiritually enlightened persons do help in interpreting the non-literal verses in scriptures.
The question of borrowing doesn't arise.  I am not a reader in any of the semitic based scriptures (other than Al-Quran), I am getting familiar now with some verses that flew around in the sky of B'net.  And to me many of those do indicate some cycles of life & death.  There is one in the old time hit - theTen Commandments, itself.
What has put off Muslims and may be Christian or Judaism scholars they might have been put off by the idea of the human soul reincarnating into the body of sub-human species.  Although the indicators are there in their scriptures, the degree of difficulties to break the "codes" in their scriptures -so to speak, to come out with a spicific scheme, is quite high.
I cosidered myself lucky.  Based on a few essential pointers which my late spiritual mentor revealed to me I revisited my Al-Quran.  And to my own personal amusement there are lots of verses pointing in the direction of a reincarnation principle.   Considering it has a high impact on our understanding in the Universal Scheme of Things, I have assembled a range of Al-Quranic verses and drawn up a scheme in which various root terminologies and information descibed in the Al-Quran are utilised.  I called the scheme as Cycles of Life & Death.  I have made this B'net exclusive to share it with anyone freely.   It is available under the Sacred Text forum - Al-Quran/Cycles of Life & Death.  Exclusive means I have not written any of it anywhere else.  Specifically I am presenting it for Muslim readers.  But all are invited to read it at your own free-will i.e if you can bear with some Arabic/Quranic terminologies being used at certain places. 

It is not my intention to prosyletise here.  But I believe some people may want to get the concept or the priciple of it and use it to navigate the various verses in their own scriptures and see if they can come out with something pretty close.

Well, Hindu Guy,  I am not denying that many of the Hinduism Sacred Texts predated those of Semitic's and that a very clear and comprehensible Reincarnation Priciple Scheme had been made available in Hinduism for such a long time, but, somehow, I cannot say for sure where humanity began.  Was it at the Artic or Antartica?  Some place things are written.  Other places they are spoken off generation to generation.  I was born a Muslim.  But I had it in my vision before I even knew the Al-Quran.
And I agree to that.  The Hell that most Muslims and Christians are talking about is a misconception - as a result of flawed interpretation - unintentional (due to ignorance) or intentional (due to combination of ignorance, lust, anger, hatred, jealousy, pride, greed).




Salaam/Namaste[/COLOR]
[/FONT]
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