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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 7:58AM #1
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571
Lots of talk about gender and feminism on every thread here. As part of the thesis post of another thread somebody made this comment…

[QUOTE=Brønwyn;63370]“Is feminism a part of paganism? Certainly, and for good reason” [/QUOTE]

  I agree thoroughly. But the following statements I have problems with as regards both the need for feminism and its results. There is nothing liberating about feminism.

[QUOTE=Brønwyn;63370]I've been thinking about this a bit, and it has occurred to my mind that feminism was perhaps "born" because of the oppression of what many scriptures in Christianity have espoused into societies that are Christian based.
And the list goes on and on.....to get re-liberated out of what Christianity has posed upon women in general. [/QUOTE]

  Neopaganism is definitely inseparable from and intertwined with feminism. No arguments there. And  modern paganism is also a female dominated and woman centered movement. Sort of the Oprah of spiritual classifications. But those are two separate characteristics. Being female is not the same as being feminist. Being pro woman or sympathetic to their plight is not the same as being feminist. Feminism is a different animal altogether.
    Christianity itself may have been some of the reason for the rise of feminism its true. (maybe even in part because of the free societies Christians created which allow such fringe movements) But it was nothing so simple as a defense against the beliefs regarding women found in the Bible as claimed.  Note the fact that the classical pagans were certainly not in any way supporters of women’s equality. Their societies were exclusively patriarchal and women were often on the level of chattel yet they never reacted by developing feminism.
   Feminism is as much a reaction against Christian culture as the modern pagan movement and I think the two just happen to make good bedfellows. 
   And that is part of the problem. I see a lot in neopaganism to be wary of. But feminism is a much greater threat to women, children and society.
    Feminism is anti life. Its support for abortion is rabid and it spends far more time on birth control issues than childbirth issues. Feminism is anti marriage and was largely responsible for the passing of no fault divorce laws in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Today NOW and other feminist speakers regularly speak in opposition in front of state legislatures who are seeking to overturn these deeply damaging no fault laws. Feminist groups actively support and campaign for gay marriage and unmarried partner benefits and seem to view male promiscuity as laudable behavior for women to emulate. Their attack on marriage is multi front.
   And for the huge number of women and children forced into grinding poverty as a result of their attacks on marriage they lobby the government for more and more handouts. The breadwinner has been replaced by the socialist income transfer. But that still leaves a moral and disciplinary gap which government can’t fill no matter how many after school programs they come up with.
    I have already pointed out the damage done to women and children by divorce and promiscuity in the area of poverty. (Post 194 the Forgivness thread) But the moral damage is just as great and extends to society itself. More terrible statistics…
           
•    90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
•    85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
•     63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.
•    80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes.
•    71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes.
•    70% of juveniles in state operated institutions come from fatherless homes
•    85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home.

       What this means is Children from fatherless homes are:
•    4.6 times more likely to commit suicide,
•    6.6 times to become teenaged mothers (if they are girls, of course),
•    24.3 times more likely to run away,
•    15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders,
•    6.3 times more likely to be in a state-operated institutions,
•    10.8 times more likely to commit rape,
•    6.6 times more likely to drop out of school,
•    15.3 times more likely to end up in prison while a teenager.
         
        Compared to children who are in the care of two biological, married parents — children who are in the care of single mothers are:
•    33 times more likely to be seriously abused (so that they will require medical attention), and
•    73 times more likely to be killed.
   
What does the government of Canada note about children in single mother homes? They note a huge discrepancy in the rate of behavior problems between children of intact families and children of broken families.

            Single-Mother     Two Parent               Relative Odds1
Problem                           %    (n)2    %    (n)2    
Hyperactivity    15.6    (69,480)    9.6    (221,573)    1.74
Conduct disorder    17.2    (73,659)    8.1    (180,786)    2.36
Emotional disorder    15.0    (67,205)    7.5    (173,714)    2.18
One or more behaviour problems    31.7    (137,460)    18.7    (418,894)    2.02
Repeated a grade 3    11.2    (36,288)    4.7    (78,026)    2.56
Current school problems 3    5.8    (18,862)    2.7    (46,120)    2.22
Social impairment    6.1    (25,105)    2.5    (51,344)    2.53
One or more total problems 3    40.6    (128,895)    23.6    (381,715)    2.21

GROWING UP IN CANADA, National Longitudinal Survey of Children and Youth (Human Resources Development Canada, Statistics Canada, Catalogue no. 89-550-MPE, no.1, November 1996, p. 91) Available from StatCan. It is only available in hard copy. $25 +GST)]

   These are the fruits of feminist ideas. Not liberation. The tragedies aren’t the fault of the pagan movement. Their numbers there are probably too small. They are the result of the feminist and liberal view that marriage is passé, husbands are redundant and family is a plastic term. And paganism does embrace those feminist ideas. Basically women hurting women. Exposing children and young girls to poverty, dangerous neighborhoods, possibly a procession of unrelated men into their homes over time and the absence of the one individual who should always be standing close to and defending her. The father.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 8:10AM #2
John_T_Mainer
Posts: 1,658
• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
• 85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.
• 80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes.
• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes.
• 70% of juveniles in state operated institutions come from fatherless homes
• 85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home.

Creed, this is not a feminist issue, this is an issue for men to address.
These women did not get pregnant alone.  Now granted, from the way you speak and act, it is possible you have never been with a woman, but allow one of vastly greater experience with the other half of the breed to bring you up to speed.

It takes two to get pregnant, but only one can turn his cowardly tale and flee the attendant responsibilities before the baby is born.  Without the man to do his share, women can choose to kill their baby, give their baby to strangers, or do their best alone, at a two person job.

Like any two person job, it is harder alone.  I raise three little girls, my wife and I do it together and it is a struggle.  Alone it would be hell.  What your figures show you is how much you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting that women are weaker or less able than men.

Buddy, those percentages represent the number of children FAILED BY MEN.  The other portion of the 100% in each case are children of families that failed even with both parents trying.  Now you would blame the women for being the only one still fighting for these kids?

Is feminism pagan?  That you ask the question is a clear statement that your own faith is just as willing to walk away from its responsibilities to these women and children as their so called men were.

Hail the mothers of the folk.  May Frigga's blessing be on all those who struggle on alone in a task that was designed to test the strength even of two.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 8:58AM #3
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
Yes, creed has condemned men for their crushing failures to their children. With those statistics you would think that men would realize that somehow men are failing to be men. Is it our culture? Christianity? Or some basic flaw in the male of the species?

Perhaps here we could discuss why so many men fail at responsibility and duty towards the next generation.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 9:42AM #4
Al_Jaeger
Posts: 593
My sister, a devout Catholic, married a devout Catholic man. They had two children. he became an achoholic and a drug dealer. he eneded up living out of dumpsters. She got an anulment/divorce.
She went to college at night, took care of my sick mother during the day, raised two wonderful children. Slept on the couch so her kids can have beds to sleep on.
She has more friends than I can count. She is now a nurse, works during the day, still has two loving, respectfull children, a small house and is engaged to a male nurse.
How did she fail? The man did. She is an angel. and my hero.
The pain,. feeling of being alone, the need for hope, fear your children will go down the wrong path. These are  all things a single parent needs to deal with.  She passed the test.  A test no one should have to take.
Creed, why can you not feel other peoples' pain?
Why can you not reach out to these people and lend them support.
Why critisize and alienate these people?
Why not blame the selfish cowardly men that abandon their family?
Jesus would have cradled my sister in his arms. She is convinced he did. I believe God did.
To say that her condition was her choice is one of the most evil statements born of ignorance I have heard. To say that the statists you provided are a result of a free choice by the women is wrong.
Creed, you base your statements in faith. Faith that a book is the word of God. I can not argue against faith. I can only argue agianst your logic.
When I read your hate, I know that  jesus would have wept.My sister  and other single parents, should be on the cover of Life Magazine as the person of the year.
You will be discarded in the trash heap of time like a cheap food wrapper.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 9:48AM #5
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
(((((AL)))))))))   ((((((JOHN)))))))  Men like you, and my husband are the reason I have't given up on your sex completely.  There are enough good ones to make up for the bad ones.
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 9:56AM #6
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
If creeds attitude is indicative of other Christians, it is no wonder that more and more young people are leaving Christianity and indeed, blame that religion and god for the ills that befall them. It is a male dominated religion and as seen here, disinclined to blame men for failing to be good men. Better it be the women's fault that men failed them and their children!

Al, (((((hugs))))) your sister sounds like a champion to me.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 11:08AM #7
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790
Gosh you guys are great ((((((((AL))))))))) and (((((((JOHN))))))) Thank you so much. Thank you
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 11:31AM #8
Al_Jaeger
Posts: 593

sacrificialgoddess wrote:

(((((AL))))))))) ((((((JOHN))))))) Men like you, and my husband are the reason I have't given up on your sex completely. There are enough good ones to make up for the bad ones.



Thanks for the comments but I humbly say that it is my sister that is great, not me. I have had major problems and faced down many earth shaking, fearsome tragedies but none like my sisters.
Thanks all of you for enforcing to the BN community that all genders are equal under the eyes of God/Goddess.
Bleesed Be,
Al

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 11:36AM #9
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=Al_Jaeger;70933]Thanks for the comments but I humbly say that it is my sister that is great, not me. I have had major problems and faced down many earth shaking, fearsome tragedies but none like my sisters.
Thanks all of you for enforcing to the BN community that all genders are equal under the eyes of God/Goddess.
Bleesed Be,
Al[/QUOTE]


Yes, your sister is great, but I know from experience that a great brother can help make things easier.   :D
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2007 - 12:30PM #10
Al_Jaeger
Posts: 593

sacrificialgoddess wrote:

Yes, your sister is great, but I know from experience that a great brother can help make things easier. :D



Bless you, Sister SG!

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