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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:48AM #41
Seshen
Posts: 191
[QUOTE=fallenangel9;102113]"an it cause harm, do as you must."


...... when exactly was that added to the Rede?
I dont think it was Gardner. It doesn't fit with the style of the text.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't added to the Rede as a general rule.  It was added by my Tradition based on our beliefs, for our practices.  We are a non-Gard Trad.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:49AM #42
ceveazey
Posts: 357
[QUOTE=SkipChurch;102371]Of course spell don't work, any more than prayers or voodoo dolls or curses or animal sacrifices to Ba'al or crossing your fingers for luck. But people strongly believe in these sorts of things, which is the operative reality for them.

Whether magic is degenerate religion, or religion is denatured and domesticated magic is a very interesting question. There is little to distinguish them really, and most of the supposed differences don't stand up to close examination.

The medieval cult of saints and relics was basically a continuation of pagan folk magic, which was got rid of by the Reformation in favor of a cult of prayer and Bible-worship and more lately the bizarre cult of angels so popular in the US.

So it continues. As far as I'm concerned a direct belief in magic and spells at least has the advantage of simplicity, and if it gives the believers some comfort, I don't see it as any more harmful than all the other supernaturalism which competes for the faith of the credulous.[/QUOTE]

"the faith of the credulous?"  It doesn't matter what faith/belief system.  What actually is the operating factor here is consciousness.  Everything resolves itself to consciousness.  If I consciously say something or do something, it is manifest in this world.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:51AM #43
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=ceveazey;102603]"the faith of the credulous?"  It doesn't matter what faith/belief system.  What actually is the operating factor here is consciousness.  Everything resolves itself to consciousness.  If I consciously say something or do something, it is manifest in this world.[/QUOTE]

Hee!

Will.  It's all about Will, isn't it?
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 10:01AM #44
ceveazey
Posts: 357
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;102611]Hee!

Will.  It's all about Will, isn't it?[/QUOTE]

Yes.  I wanted to just say "Exactly" but the system told me I can't use less than 10 words.  Now that I've used a little more than 10 words, I'll just simply say, Exactly.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 10:41AM #45
GreenEyedLily
Posts: 604
You hear it all the time though - seeing is believing.  Until you are to actually perform some form of spell and see the effects - and know there is absolutely no other explanation as to what occured - would you fully be able to believe in spells?   Or at least believe in spells whole heartedly?

I personally dont use tools - I dont find a need for them - I use them in my mind, however whether with or without tools if you put enough energy, intent and will into anything and IMO belief (being the most important perhaps?) you are already well on your way.  I remember my first spell.  *Grins at the thought* I took a dead plant - showed it to my co-workers at the time - did a little ditty in my head to make it bloom.  Next morning we come into work and I hadnt even remembered doing the spell until my coworkers face went white - on this brown, wilted and withered poor plant stood a bright pink bloom.  I still laugh at my own reaction to that - disbelief, shock, and a very high respect for that side of life.  So, did I believe in spells before that?  Perhaps to a point - but nothing compared to how I believed AFTER my first working.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:15AM #46
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
cute story lily! lol be careful some people who dont perform magic might suggest since the plant knew what you were doing it was just the placebo effect  lol:D
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:16AM #47
jestrfyl
Posts: 18
I have the same feelings about spells that I do about prayers for intervention. For the most part I do not accept them as viable. HOWEVER, there have been enough challenges to my belief that I do hold the door open. The great mysteries of life that we are continue to uncover tell me there is far more than what our 5 sense can tell us. But in my day to day living, I plod along without short cuts, divine intervention, or any other magical appeals. Life is complicated enough as it is - trying to "simplify" it only makes it more confusing.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:22AM #48
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
[QUOTE=jestrfyl;102782]I have the same feelings about spells that I do about prayers for intervention. For the most part I do not accept them as viable. HOWEVER, there have been enough challenges to my belief that I do hold the door open. The great mysteries of life that we are continue to uncover tell me there is far more than what our 5 sense can tell us. But in my day to day living, I plod along without short cuts, divine intervention, or any other magical appeals. Life is complicated enough as it is - trying to "simplify" it only makes it more confusing.[/QUOTE]

I dont see spells as anymore a shortcut in life then the practical physical side of what is normally  done alongside it!
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:30AM #49
ceveazey
Posts: 357
I'm new at this board, and so don't know what has been discussed.  My question is, why call me a witch?  Wasn't that the church's definition of me, with all its prejudice?  Therefore, if I accept that label/word, am I allowing myself to be defined by the church's prejudice?  I am well aware that the word "witch" has been lost in translation, formerly was a description of a healer/wise woman, but that's not what people think about the word "witch" when they hear it.  Even though the Constition of the U.S. has recognized witchcraft as a legitimate religion, isn't even the recognition of witchcraft as a religion still a description under the umbrella of the church?  A similar discussion about athiesm being a religion, or not, goes on at the Discuss Athiesm board.  Many who are athiests don't like hearing their beliefs called a religion for the same reason.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:35AM #50
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=Feinics;102794]I dont see spells as anymore a shortcut in life then the practical physical side of what is normally  done alongside it![/QUOTE]

There is a reason they say that just about anything that can be done with magic can be done more easily physically!
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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