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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:35AM #31
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=Feinics;102794]I dont see spells as anymore a shortcut in life then the practical physical side of what is normally  done alongside it![/QUOTE]

There is a reason they say that just about anything that can be done with magic can be done more easily physically!
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:36AM #32
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=ceveazey;102809]I'm new at this board, and so don't know what has been discussed.  My question is, why call me a witch?  Wasn't that the church's definition of me, with all its prejudice?  Therefore, if I accept that label/word, am I allowing myself to be defined by the church's prejudice?  I am well aware that the word "witch" has been lost in translation, formerly was a description of a healer/wise woman, but that's not what people think about the word "witch" when they hear it.  Even though the Constition of the U.S. has recognized witchcraft as a legitimate religion, isn't even the recognition of witchcraft as a religion still a description under the umbrella of the church?  A similar discussion about athiesm being a religion, or not, goes on at the Discuss Athiesm board.  Many who are athiests don't like hearing their beliefs called a religion for the same reason.[/QUOTE]

How has the constitution recognized witchcraft as a legitimate religion?  :confused:
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 11:43AM #33
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;102820]There is a reason they say that just about anything that can be done with magic can be done more easily physically![/QUOTE]

very true but then theres an implication with that, which gets dangerously close to making magic a seperate thing in our lives instead of a part of it. To me magic is a natural thing I treat my magical acts with the same responsability I do my physical acts but i dont see it as any more shortcut then asking a friend for help/advice or any  physical activity that makes life that bit easier:)
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 4:46AM #34
lil_lamb
Posts: 2,898
since placebos actually work... i suspect it's the same difference.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 5:49AM #35
SkipChurch
Posts: 5
Of course spell don't work, any more than prayers or voodoo dolls or curses or animal sacrifices to Ba'al or crossing your fingers for luck. But people strongly believe in these sorts of things, which is the operative reality for them.

Whether magic is degenerate religion, or religion is denatured and domesticated magic is a very interesting question. There is little to distinguish them really, and most of the supposed differences don't stand up to close examination.

The medieval cult of saints and relics was basically a continuation of pagan folk magic, which was got rid of by the Reformation in favor of a cult of prayer and Bible-worship and more lately the bizarre cult of angels so popular in the US.

So it continues. As far as I'm concerned a direct belief in magic and spells at least has the advantage of simplicity, and if it gives the believers some comfort, I don't see it as any more harmful than all the other supernaturalism which competes for the faith of the credulous.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:14AM #36
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
[QUOTE=SkipChurch;102371]Of course spell don't work, any more than prayers or voodoo dolls or curses or animal sacrifices to Ba'al or crossing your fingers for luck. But people strongly believe in these sorts of things, which is the operative reality for them.

Whether magic is degenerate religion, or religion is denatured and domesticated magic is a very interesting question. There is little to distinguish them really, and most of the supposed differences don't stand up to close examination.

The medieval cult of saints and relics was basically a continuation of pagan folk magic, which was got rid of by the Reformation in favor of a cult of prayer and Bible-worship and more lately the bizarre cult of angels so popular in the US.

So it continues. As far as I'm concerned a direct belief in magic and spells at least has the advantage of simplicity, and if it gives the believers some comfort, I don't see it as any more harmful than all the other supernaturalism which competes for the faith of the credulous.[/QUOTE]

Since I have evidence that magic is very real, you'll forgive me if I don't take the word of a stranger who failed to offer any evidence in his point of few and just dismissed magic without the "close examination" he claimed.  :rolleyes:
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:30AM #37
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
[QUOTE=lil_lamb;102348]since placebos actually work... i suspect it's the same difference.[/QUOTE]

I agree placebos and frame of mind works but do you not think spells work on other levels also without the aid of the placebo effect?
but yes a result is a result.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:39AM #38
ceveazey
Posts: 357
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;99703]Don't buy it.  If you would heal, you must be able to harm.  The two are incredibly linked.[/QUOTE]


Hello sacrificialgoddess,

Able to and actually harming are not the same.  I thought what I said was clear, that I don't do negative spells.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:44AM #39
ceveazey
Posts: 357
[QUOTE=Seshen;100848]Depends how you define "evil" and "negative."  If someone physically attacked me or loved ones, I'd defend.  I see no difference on the psychological level.   To defend against attack IS a healing action, IMHO, because the cause of the problem is removed.

Now, a spell of this nature would not be my first choice, but if it was the most reasonable one, I'd go kick psychological butt.  That's one reason my Tradition has added to the Rede for ourselves, "an it cause harm, do as you must."  Because even if your true will is to not harm another, it's not always in our best interests to avoid it.[/QUOTE]


Well I think evil and negative, would rather have been to actualize some kind of killing energy, but I didn't do that.  I just put up a barrier between them and me.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 9:46AM #40
Seshen
Posts: 191
[QUOTE=SakuraHana;101307]No, they do not work outside the Placebo Effect. There is no evidence that burning incense, or saying chants, et cetera has any supernatural effect on the universe.[/QUOTE]

Well, of course not.  They are the tools to create a shift of awareness.  The spell works through the power of the mind; tools can help focus on the goal. 

BTW, I don't believe in "supernatural."   All is natural, though not everything is comfortable.
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