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Switch to Forum Live View sabbath keeping, impossible ?
7 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2007 - 9:12PM #241
Discerner
Posts: 1,722
MM you wrote, in part, the following: The verb "sabat"(7673) is used in the Hebrew Bible about 200 times. First used in Genesis 2:2,3. From Strong's Concordance:

[COLOR=black]MM, we need to clear up some misconceptions and out-of-context usage of some words. First, 7673 in Strong's Concordance is the Hebrew word shabath, the meaning that I gave you in my previous post, and not sabat. The word shabath is only used 10 times or less as the word 'rest' and 'rested' in the Old Testament (Hebrew), not 200 times. The other usages of 7673 are not connected to 'rest', but rather some of the other definitions of 7673. Its use in Genesis 2:2 and 3 can only be taken within the context that God rested (7673-shabath) on the seventh day of the week. If you want to eliminate the word 'Sabbath', that's fine, but it was still a day of rest that was blessed, hallowed and sanctified (made holy) by God on the day He rested (7673-shabath). Within the context of the meanings of 'shabath', God 'ceased' from His work, or in other words, His work of creation was finished, done and completed. The word 'rest' as 7673 (shabath) in the OT is first used in Exodus 5:5. The word 'rested' first appears in Genesis 2:2 and 3, and next in Exodus 16:30. Within this context, they must be correlated in their meaning.


SHABATH=A Primitive root To repose,i.e desist from exertion;used in many implied relations.(causative,figurative,or specific) (cause to,let,make to) cease, celebrate,cause(make to)fail,keep(sabbath),suffer
to be lacking,leave,put away (down),(make to) rest, rid, still take away

The word 'shabath' is a prime root for other words, which means other words are derived from this basic definition. The definitions which you have written above describe the usages of this word, but its usage in a particular text must be used within the context of the verse being studied, and be correlated to the subject content of that particular verse.

But the basic and most frequent meaning of the verb "sabat" is shown in Genesis 8:22. To CEASE. You will find that this promise is prophetic, a sign of the faithfulness of God. See and note Jeremiah 31:36. This verb is used in many various ways -put away(Exodus 12:15); to be lacking(Lev 2:13); put down((2 Kings23:5) rid(Lev26:6)

Here is what Genesis 8:22 says, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." What reference is there to the word 'rest' in this verse? The word 'cease' falls within another usage of the word 'shabath', and not within the purview of 'rest'. The same applies to the other verses you reference above, for none of them deals with 'rest', or the keeping of the Sabbath, but rather refer to other usages of 7673. The prophetic promise of Genesis 8:22 is that the world will never again be destroyed by flood.

The noun "Shabbat" is nowhere found in Exodus 5:5. Shabbat(7676)comes from the root of the verb"shabat"

MM, I would disagree with your comment above. Here is Exodus 5:5, which says, "And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens." The word 'rest' in this verse is 7673-shabath. To understand the proper context in which this verse is to be taken, you need to back up a few verses to see what they tell us. You will find that Moses and Aaron have confronted Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go, but Pharaoh complains that already they (Moses and Aaron) have made the Israelites 'rest from their burdens'. Being of God, do you think that Moses and Aaron would lead them astray from the 'day of rest' given by God at creation by having them rest on another day? I don't think that my God changes.

The Bible gives no day of the week indicating when the Israelites "rested" from their burdens. It is speculation on any one's part what day it was. Again, I state that the Sabbath was not mention until Exodus 16.

[/COLOR]God gives us personal choice as to being obedient to Him. He will NEVER force us in our Christian journey. Because there is 'silence' on what day they rested, based on scripture from Genesis to Revelation, what day would you pick out as being the most logical and according to the Genesis account of the seventh day rest by God? The presence of 'silence' in this instance does not negate the creation account at creation.

God bless!
Discerner
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2007 - 12:37PM #242
VG59
Posts: 3,368
does anyone write a concise statement these days?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2007 - 11:59PM #243
lyndonl
Posts: 96
[QUOTE=VG59;92911]does anyone write a concise statement these days?[/QUOTE]

Hi Val,  I do. That's it lol.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 26, 2007 - 5:02PM #244
Discerner
Posts: 1,722
MM, you wrote: You(Discerner) pointed out that these govern the theocratic nation of Israel. What you failed to post is that verse 20 of the Psalm clearly states that no other nation was given these laws, which includes the Decalogue! You cannot separate the Decalogue from the Law to fit your theological bent. But it has nothing to do with the Christian Era? Rubbish!!! Where do you think you get your Bible from? Thin air? Where do you think the New Testament came from? What reference material did CHRIST AND THE APOSTLES USE? With the aid of the Holy Spirit, I will add!

I don't recall saying that in David's time other nations were given the Ten Commandments. So far as the Bible intimates, no other tribes or nations worshipped the God of heaven; therefore, the Ten Commandments meant nothing to them. But the Bible does tell us that some people of nations and/or tribes attacked and overcome by the Israelites became part of Israel, and, no doubt, were obligated to accept the God of heaven as their own. Some instances come to mind. In Leviticus 20, verse 2, it mentions sojourners that joined Israel, and thus were subject to the commandments. In Numbers 31 the Midianites were attacked and some were brought into the Israelite camp. Joshua 2 gives us the story of Rahab, who believed in the God of Israel, and after Jericho was destroyed, she went to live with the Isralites. The story of Ruth, a Moabite, is well known. These, and many others throughout the ages, became part of the Israelite nation, and, as such, accepted the God of Israel as their God, and thusly, were subject to the Ten Commandments. So it is obvious that the Ten Commandments were not only for the Jews, but for those who believed and followed God.

Your comment that you cannot separate the Decalogue from the law is incorrect. As pointed out above, there were those other than the Israelites that worshipped the God of heaven and kept the Ten Commandments. So far as the origin of the New Testament, it was written by the followers of Christ, who taught them from the Old Testament that foretold His coming as the Messiah, and refers to Abraham and Moses, and other patriarchs and their writings. Without the Old Testament, the New Testament is incomplete.

The ordinances provided in the OT for the sacrificial system of rituals for the forgiveness of sins was done away with when Christ died. Numbers 19:2, and following verses, outlines the sacrifice of an animal for forgiveness of sins. The sacrifice of animals by shedding their blood was emblematic of the shedding of Christ's blood in the future for the forgiveness of sins. This is pointed out by Paul in Colossians 2:14, which says that the ordinances were blotted out and nailed to the cross.

God bless!
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2007 - 7:38AM #245
DevynsGma
Posts: 152
Another passage of scripture that is related to this idea - that the Sabbath is to be kept by any and all who worship Him and not just to the Jews - is Isaiah chapter 56. Verses 4-7 are quite beautiful and full of hope. And all inclusive of all mankind:

"For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2007 - 9:23AM #246
VG59
Posts: 3,368
I have to give you all inclusive on that text!
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2007 - 9:52AM #247
Justly
Posts: 186
Before I begin the process of dragging my artificial Christmas tree out from storage and attempting to at least semi reshaping its branches...

  What's wrong with not judging those who keep the Sabbath nor as Paul suggested not judging those who have yet come to its full understanding?  I'm not clear about why the disciples met daily with one accord in the temple.  But I do know God rested on the 7th day.  What the 10 C's say.  DevynsGma's Isaiah verses.  Luke specifically mentioning the women keeping the Sabbath after Christ's death.  (Well alrighty perhaps I shouldn't have thrown DevynsGma in there with Luke.)  :)  Paul meeting with the Gentiles on the Sabbath.  No specific NT mention as far as I can tell of the Sabbath being ended.  Paul in Romans did say something to the effect...  He who observes THE day for the Lord, observes it for the Lord.  And he who does not, well, does not.  Let each be convinced in his/her own mind.  But isn't that saying the Sabbath is still THE day.  We just need to be convinced of it?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2007 - 4:11PM #248
sincerly
Posts: 4,052

VG59 wrote:

I have to give you all inclusive on that text!



Val, that was GOD who is and always has been "all inclusive."
God has searched for all HIS wayward Children since Adam. HE is "not a respecter of persons" and as Peter said, 2Pet.3:9, " ....not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance". God was very just and gracious when HE provided ONE LAW FOR ALL TO BE GOVERNED BY. Lev.19:33-34; 24:22; Num.15:16,29; Deut.31:12; Gen.12:49.

The problem comes when one looks into that "mirror"/scriptures and forgets the principles which were shown him/her. When one only sees self instead of "Christ", much more "Refining has to be done".----be one with Jesus as Jesus is one with the Father.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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