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Switch to Forum Live View How Do You Set Aside Your Christianity to Justify Torture?
3 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2014 - 11:45AM #11
RJMcElwain
Posts: 3,013

Clearly, Augustine viewed war as a last resort, when all else has failed. I don't think he addresses torture particularly. In recent times, war and torture seem to be near the top of the list of solutions for all circumstances. Can anyone give clear and reasonable arguments/justifications for, let’s say, our last 6 wars?  Some have suggested that there are those in the military that see war as a permanent condition.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2014 - 9:30AM #12
RJMcElwain
Posts: 3,013

And speaking of moral authority.



www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-3045596...

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2014 - 10:53PM #13
slu_magoo
Posts: 1,008

The fact that Dick Cheney is free to walk around in public is a sign of how far our nation has fallen in the name of 'national security.'  My God.  9/11 happened, and it was horrible.  It happens every day in other parts of the world.  


The results of it happening here:  people lost their minds, surrendered their freedoms, gave in to war mongering demogogues, and somehow justified the brutalization of other human beings.  That's what our nation has become -- thanks to GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Halliburton, Blackwater, and countless others who duped Americans into thinking that their own towns and neighborhoods were one Muslim away from being wiped off the face of the planet.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2014 - 2:32PM #14
maplewood
Posts: 4,517

It's my hope that Mr. Cheney or several people in govt are charged with war crimes. What they perpetrated is horrific, and is illegal.


That at one time certain people in the Christian church tortured people is, IMO, not a reason to say that it is a morally acceptable Christian act. It simply means that wolves in sheep's clothing acted life wolves.


I think that hurting people to achieve your own ends is basically immoral, and not in keeping with a gospel of simplicity, mercy, and peace.  "Who Would Jesus Torture?" sounds revolting.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2015 - 1:27AM #15
MsTopaz
Posts: 407

Dec 18, 2014 -- 2:32PM, maplewood wrote:


It's my hope that Mr. Cheney or several people in govt are charged with war crimes. What they perpetrated is horrific, and is illegal.


That at one time certain people in the Christian church tortured people is, IMO, not a reason to say that it is a morally acceptable Christian act. It simply means that wolves in sheep's clothing acted life wolves.


I think that hurting people to achieve your own ends is basically immoral, and not in keeping with a gospel of simplicity, mercy, and peace.  "Who Would Jesus Torture?" sounds revolting.




Agreed. From Human Rights Watch:


"Rejecting torture does not mean forgoing effective interrogations of terrorist suspects. Patient, skillful, professional interrogations obtain critical information without relying on cruelty or inhuman or degrading treatment. Indeed, most seasoned interrogators recognize that torture is not only immoral and illegal, but ineffective and unnecessary as well. Given that people being tortured will say anything to stop the pain, the information yielded from torture is often false or of dubious reliability.


The prohibition against torture is firmly embedded in customary international law, international treaties signed by the United States, and in U.S. law."

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