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Switch to Forum Live View Dealing with "Religious Tolerance Drama" Again and Again
2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 11:25AM #1
3neez
Posts: 6,708

I groan. Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani, has forced organizers, the international judo federation and the Saudi Olympic Committee to huddle again and again in search of a solution because of her Hijab.

''I doubt it is Islamic to play judo,'' Sheikh Abul-Kheir Ahmed, a cleric who teaches law and Islamic jurisdiction at Cairo's Al-Azhar University, the region's premier religious institution, told The Associated Press on Tuesday. ''Men will be looking at her and she will likely be wearing form-fitting attire.''

Others, including some hard-line women, were even more insistent that a compromise, any compromise, cannot be adequate.

''Any agreement (with the Olympics Committee) has come at the expense of her hijab and her commitment and faith,'' said Alaa Ahmed, a producer for Maria TV, the first pan-Arabic channel to feature only fully veiled women. ''She can play for herself in a place for women only, but not on an international stage in front of men to win a medal at the expense of countering her religion. ... She should not please this world in exchange for the hereafter.''
 
Bad planning on their part and still groaning.


www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALe...



Edit: added news link

Moderated by Stardove on Aug 02, 2012 - 12:43AM
"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid." - Ricky Gervais

“In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” - Mark Twain
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 1:22PM #2
TemplarS
Posts: 6,249

Aug 1, 2012 -- 11:25AM, 3neez wrote:

I groan. Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani, has forced organizers, the international judo federation and the Saudi Olympic Committee to huddle again and again in search of a solution because of her Hijab.

''I doubt it is Islamic to play judo,'' Sheikh Abul-Kheir Ahmed, a cleric who teaches law and Islamic jurisdiction at Cairo's Al-Azhar University, the region's premier religious institution, told The Associated Press on Tuesday. ''Men will be looking at her and she will likely be wearing form-fitting attire.''

Others, including some hard-line women, were even more insistent that a compromise, any compromise, cannot be adequate.

''Any agreement (with the Olympics Committee) has come at the expense of her hijab and her commitment and faith,'' said Alaa Ahmed, a producer for Maria TV, the first pan-Arabic channel to feature only fully veiled women. ''She can play for herself in a place for women only, but not on an international stage in front of men to win a medal at the expense of countering her religion. ... She should not please this world in exchange for the hereafter.''
 
Bad planning on their part and still groaning.



Whether they be hardline Muslims, or various US politicians,  I have zero respect for people who dismiss "compromise" out of hand.


If they are unwilling to try to find a compromise, they can feel free to stay home (or, not run for Congress, as the case may be).




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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 5:08PM #3
Paravani
Posts: 797


Hi, All!


Aug 1, 2012 -- 11:25AM, 3neez wrote:

''Men will be looking at her and she will likely be wearing form-fitting attire.''



Good grief!  He hasn't even bothered to find out what a judo "gi" looks like!


Gi photo here


Loose long pants, loose long sleeves...  Why, I've seen Pakistani Muslim women wearing more revealing clothing than this!


Willful ignorance abounds, and apparently Americans have no monopoly on it.


Love to all,


Claudia

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 5:24PM #4
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,470

Claudia


Alas, to some people that is "form fitting"


Here is the thing, if one thinks one will be offended by watching a Judo match, don't watch it. If one thinks it violates the norms of ones group, one should tell people in one's group that it violates the norms of the group and not to watch it.


I won't be watching any judo matches and I do not find them offensive. Judo just is not my thing.


On the other hand, if this were the biggest problem in the world, it would not be so bad.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 5:28PM #5
3neez
Posts: 6,708

Notice also there is no "public statement" from Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani, the Saudi contestant. This would also be against their law. Sounds like a job for Larry Flynt. LMAO


I just HAD to do that.

"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid." - Ricky Gervais

“In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” - Mark Twain
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 9:50PM #6
mountain_man
Posts: 38,054

Aug 1, 2012 -- 11:25AM, 3neez wrote:

I groan. Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shahrkhani, has forced organizers, the international judo federation and the Saudi Olympic Committee to huddle again and again in search of a solution because of her Hijab.....


Why should I care?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2012 - 10:08AM #7
TemplarS
Posts: 6,249

There is also the issue of the Olympics being scheduled during Ramadan, which presents problems for the Muslim athletes.


As I have read, some of these athletes have observed the prescribed fasting, others have not.  But the Muslim nations did not walk out en masse, or demand that the Olympics be rescheduled for June.


I am not sure about Islam, but most religions are not absolute about these sorts of ritual activities. There are exceptions from dietary fasts for health reasons, for example.


Is God really going to strike someone down for discarding the hijab for one sporting event, or if a Muslim marathoner eats lunch the day before a race to keep his strength up, or if a Catholic misses Mass because his/her events are scheduled for that time?


If an athlete thinks he will, he or she must make that choice of conscience.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2012 - 10:45AM #8
Erey
Posts: 17,351

I am glad that a compromised was acheieved for this one female saudi athelete.  I have read alot of commentary that this is a sham, that they are not serious about promoting women's atheletics, etc.  That is not for me to analyze too much.  I will say, I feel greatfull not to be a Saudi woman and have a bunch of men pontificate if I am doing religion in the right way. 


Also, it speaks to what is really a much more modern affectation of Islam, the Hijab.  Yes it has always existed, even before Islam.  But this idea that hijab is the most important thing a muslim woman can do and the one thing that shold never be compromised is not a consistant, historical attitude.  People were much more relaxed about it. 


 


At least the KSA is trying, albeit in a very flawed manner.  This story reminds me of another current topic out of KSA where one of the first female elected  officials (to the cabinet or parliment? )   had a hissy fit becasue there are a couple of photos of her circulating without her veil.  The fact is she does not ALWAYS wear her veil because there are pictures of her out in public without it.  But she has to pretend to be outraged and angry. 


She participates with her colleges via closed video monitor where she sits in a room alone while all her male collegues are together.  She can see and hear them on the monitor but they can only hear her voice, not see her. 

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2012 - 10:06PM #9
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Aug 2, 2012 -- 10:45AM, Erey wrote:


Also, it speaks to what is really a much more modern affectation of Islam, the Hijab.  Yes it has always existed, even before Islam.  But this idea that hijab is the most important thing a muslim woman can do and the one thing that shold never be compromised is not a consistant, historical attitude.  People were much more relaxed about it. 


 



Hijab is about being modest in your appearance and manner.  It's very much like Amish beliefs about modesty.  It's not just about how one dresses.  The Qur'an is not specific about wardrobe.  It doesn't even say specifically that women's hair must be covered.  Ironically, the Bible does say that women must cover their hair.  


Erey is so right about how the belief that headcovering (commonly called hijab, but we call it khimar) is mandatory goes in and out of fashion.  It's not Islamic in origin; Middle Eastern Jews, Christians and pagans wore it before Muslims did.  Men wore it, too.  In the desert, you need it.


Most Muslim women don't cover their hair, although most do dress modestly.  I only cover mine for masjid or when I'm somewhere where I do it out of respect for the local culture.  That might be among Christians and Jews, as well as Muslims.


On Planet Saudi, what is cultural is often elevated to the sacred.  The rest of us go on with life.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2012 - 3:55PM #10
BDboy
Posts: 4,542

Aug 1, 2012 -- 5:24PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Claudia


Alas, to some people that is "form fitting"


Here is the thing, if one thinks one will be offended by watching a Judo match, don't watch it. If one thinks it violates the norms of ones group, one should tell people in one's group that it violates the norms of the group and not to watch it.


I won't be watching any judo matches and I do not find them offensive. Judo just is not my thing.


On the other hand, if this were the biggest problem in the world, it would not be so bad.


The positive here is that, Saudi Arabia is sending women and we are discussing the issue. I am sure once things are sorted out, it will not be a "Hot topic" for a long time. Because this will become "Normal"....

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