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Switch to Forum Live View Things atheism is not.
3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 8:29PM #21
mountain_man
Posts: 40,256

Apr 19, 2012 -- 6:50PM, Fodaoson wrote:

Atheism is not a philosophy: Atheism fits the  2 b,c &3 definitions of a philosophy.


So would stamp collecting, or gardening.


Atheism is not a belief. : .  If one thinks about  religion and or theism and then holds to atheism because of lack of evidence and the lack of phenomenal reality,  it becomes a belief


Again, so would not stamp collecting be a belief. A lack of belief cannot be a belief. That's like saying bald is a hair color.


Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is the antithesis of religion so this is a true stement


No, Atheism is a lack of religion, not the antithesis of religion.


Atheism fits the  2 b,c &3 definition of a philosophy


PHILOSOPHY :1 a (1): all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2): the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of  medicine, law, and theology ......


There is nothing in that definition that fits Atheism.


2. a: pursuit of wisdom b: a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly  speculative rather than observational means c: an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs.


Again, nothing there fits Atheism. Atheism is not a persuit of wisdom; it is a lack of belief in gods.


3. the most basic beliefs, concepts, and  attitudes of an individual or group...


Again, nothing there that has to do with a lack of belief.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:01PM #22
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162

Apr 19, 2012 -- 7:57PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 6:52PM, steven_guy wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 6:50PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Atheism is not a philosophy: Atheism fits the  2 b,c &3 definitions of a philosophy.


Atheism is not a belief. : .  If one thinks about  religion and or theism and then holds to atheism because of lack of evidence and the lack of phenomenal reality,  it becomes a belief


Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is the antithesis of religion so this is a true stement  


Atheism fits the  2 b,c &3 definition of a philosophy


PHILOSOPHY :1 a (1): all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2): the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of  medicine, law, and theology


2. a: pursuit of wisdom b: a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly  speculative rather than observational means c: an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs.


3. the most basic beliefs, concepts, and  attitudes of an individual or group


BELIEF::  conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence




So, according to you, not collecting stamps is a hobby?




Not believing in Santa Claus is also a religion




I said nothing about atheism being a religion except that atheism is the antithesis of religion so not a religion is a true statement


Not collecting stamps would be a hobby if you go the extreme of avoiding stamps of any kind, shape or form to accumulate in your possession  after making a conscience  decision to pursue   avoidance of  accumulation


IF one contemplates atheism  and makes an argument for the no-existence of a god, gods, goddess, superior beings, then atheism has  become  A philosophy.[ 2. a: pursuit of wisdom b: a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly  speculative rather than observational means c: an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs.]


“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:34PM #23
steven_guy
Posts: 11,751

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:01PM, Fodaoson wrote:

IF one contemplates atheism  and makes an argument for the no-existence of a god, gods, goddess, superior beings, then atheism has  become  A philosophy.[ 2. a: pursuit of wisdom b: a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly  speculative rather than observational means c: an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs.



Baloney.


Atheists here don't many any arguments for the nonexistence of God. The onus of proof is on the case for the affirmative. 


There are no arguments for the existence of God that are not deeply and fataly flawed. There is nothing for atheists to do.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:21PM #24
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:34PM, steven_guy wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:01PM, Fodaoson wrote:

IF one contemplates atheism  and makes an argument for the no-existence of a god, gods, goddess, superior beings, then atheism has  become  A philosophy.[ 2. a: pursuit of wisdom b: a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly  speculative rather than observational means c: an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs.



Baloney.


Atheists here don't many any arguments for the nonexistence of God. The onus of proof is on the case for the affirmative. 


There are no arguments for the existence of God that are not deeply and fataly flawed. There is nothing for atheists to do.




How do you know they are “deeply and fataly flawed” unless YOU have pursued  “an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs”. In that case you have done ”philosophy”  of  “non  theism.”  

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:24PM #25
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 19, 2012 -- 10:21PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:34PM, steven_guy wrote:

There are no arguments for the existence of God that are not deeply and fataly flawed. There is nothing for atheists to do.



How do you know they are “deeply and fataly flawed” unless YOU have pursued  “an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs”.



One needn't go to all that trouble. There aren't many arguments for the existence of God, and there are books that present all of them together with their flaws.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:44PM #26
Blü
Posts: 25,187

fodaoson


IF one contemplates atheism  and makes an argument for the no-existence of a god, gods, goddess, superior beings, then atheism has  become  A philosophy.


That's an armchair view.  If you want to stay in your armchair then I'll have an armagnac thanks, and pass on the cigars.  Our first topic is the absence of a definition of 'supernatural being' suitable both to theology and to reasoned enquiry, so that we have no objective test that will tell us whether any candidate is a supernatural being or not. 


Thus the philosophical point is not that supernatural beings don't exist, but that the term, applied to something thought to be real, denotes nothing, is meaningless.

If you can provide a satisfactory definition then the question of whether supernatural beings have objective existence then becomes one of fact.  Now we rise from our armchairs and go to examine reality.  We find no real supernatural beings anywhere - just the old, vaguely conceived, imaginary ones.

This is fundamental because all arguments for atheism are ultimately inductive - if a satisfactory definition of a supernatural being can be provided, those arguments can be overturned just by a satisfactory demonstration of a supernatural being with objective existence.

But so far we've seen nothing of the kind.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 12:18AM #27
mountain_man
Posts: 40,256

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:01PM, Fodaoson wrote:

I said nothing about atheism being a religion except that atheism is the antithesis of religion so not a religion is a true statement


Which you got wrong. Atheism is not the antithesis of religion.


IF one contemplates atheism


There is nothing in Atheism to contemplate.


and makes an argument for the no-existence of a god, gods, goddess, superior beings, then atheism has  become  A philosophy.....


No, it becomes a lack of belief in gods.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 8:13AM #28
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 19, 2012 -- 8:21PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 5:37PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Atheism might not be those things, but it can drive and/or result from them.


Only if you want to "nit pick" words, but you wouldn't want to do that after complaining about someone else doing that.


Lacking a belief in gods does not "drive" anything in my life. Every thought I have does not begin with "since I do not believe in gods...." I go through life not thinking about not believing in goes. Reality drives my life, it informs my views, it guides me. Atheism does nothing. It can't do anything since it is nothing more than a lack of belief in gods.





Atheism lends itself toward certain views on some very fundamental questions. To say it simply won't affect one's world view is pure nonsense.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 8:16AM #29
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 19, 2012 -- 8:23PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 19, 2012 -- 6:46PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

...But I still understand perfectly well what atheism is, and what it means to be atheist.


Yet every thing you post shows us otherwise.


...I was, therefore, atheist.


Again, your misunderstanding of Atheism shows us otherwise.





Who is "us?" Are you talking about yourself in the royal third person now?


Athiesm is a lack of belief in God(s)/creator/higher power, and/or, the view that no such things exist.


At one point in my life, I had concluded and thought, no such thing as a God(s)/creator/higher power existed.


I was therefore atheist.


I can't make it any more clear than that.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 9:59AM #30
farragut
Posts: 4,124

"


At one point in my life, I had concluded and thought, no such thing as a God(s)/creator/higher power existed.


I was therefore atheist.


I can't make it any more clear than that"


 


As briefly as possible, pray, what changed your mind?

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