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Switch to Forum Live View ATHEISM 2.O. WHAT ATHEISM CAN LEARN FROM RELIGION
3 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:04PM #51
teilhard
Posts: 51,760

EVERYTHING in The Universe is subject to MIS-Interpretation, for sure ... It ISN'T only People of Faith, however, who SOMETIMES "get it wrong" or even "don't 'get' it AT ALL" ...


Apr 6, 2012 -- 11:06AM, JCarlin wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 10:02AM, teilhard wrote:

Yes ... GOOD Stories well-told, Poetry, Plays and Myths are NOT just for "entertainment," but take us DEEPER into The Meaning(s) of Life and of Existence itself



Nonetheless, religious interpretations of stories and myths even their own religious stories and myths are generally worthless, and frequently dysfunctional, for discovering the meaning of life and explaining existence in the modern world. 


Religious interpretations generally are of the form "We are the world's sweet chosen few.  The rest of you be damned."  This interpretation promotes hate, bigotry and fear of others, and prevents the cosmopolitan cooperation necessary in the diverse, multi life-style world we live in.


This is not to say that religious myths and stories are not useful.  They can be used as horror stories to frighten children away from religious temptation, and the dangers of hate based and misogynous doctrines typical of most Abrahamic religions.   





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 5:22PM #52
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Cougar, indeed, I am quite odd.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 12:46PM #53
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Apr 6, 2012 -- 11:26AM, steven_guy wrote:


What can atheism learn from religion? Nothing. 


Atheism isn't some sort of belief system. It isn't a "world view". It isn't a way of life. It isn't even a way of thinking.


It is simply an absence of a believe in a god or gods. 




I agree completely with this.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 2:43PM #54
Sparky_Spotty
Posts: 831

Apr 7, 2012 -- 12:46PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 11:26AM, steven_guy wrote:


What can atheism learn from religion? Nothing. 


Atheism isn't some sort of belief system. It isn't a "world view". It isn't a way of life. It isn't even a way of thinking.


It is simply an absence of a believe in a god or gods. 




I agree completely with this.




So do I, but theists will argue that:


Atheism requires 'faith'


Atheism carries a burden of proof.


Athests cannot prove god doesn't exist, (so somehow it follows he does)


Lather, rinse, repeat

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 3:22PM #55
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Apr 7, 2012 -- 2:43PM, Sparky_Spotty wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 12:46PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 11:26AM, steven_guy wrote:


What can atheism learn from religion? Nothing. 


Atheism isn't some sort of belief system. It isn't a "world view". It isn't a way of life. It isn't even a way of thinking.


It is simply an absence of a believe in a god or gods. 




I agree completely with this.




So do I, but theists will argue that:


Atheism requires 'faith'


Atheism carries a burden of proof.


Athests cannot prove god doesn't exist, (so somehow it follows he does)


Lather, rinse, repeat




Boggles the mind doesn't it?


What always amazes me is that so many do not understand what atheism actually is. Lack of belief.


Not complicated. Does not require proofs or evidence to not believe.


Most people who state what you mentioned above, do not believe in Zeus or Apollo as actual gods, They don't "believe" in them. But can not seem to match that, to an atheist not "believing" in their god. It is EXACTLY the same thing. Exactly.


I don't get it.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 3:36PM #56
teilhard
Posts: 51,760

Again, the fine Point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is DIFFERENT than (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God' ..."



(2) Does come across to Reasonable People of Faith AS a "Faith" Claim ...

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 4:58PM #57
cptspith
Posts: 2,365

Apr 8, 2012 -- 3:36PM, teilhard wrote:


Again, the fine Point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is DIFFERENT than (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God' ..."


(2) Does come across to Reasonable People of Faith AS a "Faith" Claim ...




Again, the fine point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is the actual claim being made by the overwhelming majority of atheists, even on this discussion list, and (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God'" is almost non-existent amongst atheists, if you actually pay attention to the specifics of their actual arguments.


It does come across to REASONABLE people as People of Faith refusing to actually PAY ATTENTION to what atheists ACTUALLY say and believe (and don't believe).


This isn't the first (or seventh) time you've been corrected on your slander.

Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah

Do not assume that which you seek to discover.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 5:28PM #58
teilhard
Posts: 51,760

***"almost" ... Yes, I know ... THAT is NOT the SAME Thing as ... NOBODY ...


THAT is a fine Point ...


Apr 8, 2012 -- 4:58PM, cptspith wrote:


Apr 8, 2012 -- 3:36PM, teilhard wrote:


Again, the fine Point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is DIFFERENT than (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God' ..."


(2) Does come across to Reasonable People of Faith AS a "Faith" Claim ...




Again, the fine point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is the actual claim being made by the overwhelming majority of atheists, even on this discussion list, and (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God'" is ***almost non-existent amongst atheists, if you actually pay attention to the specifics of their actual arguments.


It does come across to REASONABLE people as People of Faith refusing to actually PAY ATTENTION to what atheists ACTUALLY say and believe (and don't believe).


This isn't the first (or seventh) time you've been corrected on your slander.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 5:28PM #59
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Apr 8, 2012 -- 3:36PM, teilhard wrote:


Again, the fine Point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is DIFFERENT than (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God' ..."



(2) Does come across to Reasonable People of Faith AS a "Faith" Claim ...




Well Christians claim there is a god (with no proof) and try to force it into and onto  everyone, including having it  taught in public schools. Why would an atheist not have the same right, to have strong feeling as to whether or not there are gods?


Seems an awful lot of Christians, I could say theists, but it tends to be Christians (generic) don't seem to feel everyone has the same right to air their thoughts as Christians do.


Why should an atheist have to be passive? You are not.


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 5:42PM #60
teilhard
Posts: 51,760

**ONE of the Things "Atheists" can and should learn from People of Faith is that FAR from ALL of us take such a Position ...


***Nor do I insist that "Atheists" SHOULD be "passive" ... I simply note that some are, and some ARE NOT ...


Apr 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Apr 8, 2012 -- 3:36PM, teilhard wrote:


Again, the fine Point ...


(1) A passive NON-Belief in "God" by default is DIFFERENT than (2) an active advancement of a positive Truth Claim that, "There IS  NO  'God' ..."



(2) Does come across to Reasonable People of Faith AS a "Faith" Claim ...




**Well Christians claim there is a god (with no proof) and try to force it into and onto  everyone, including having it  taught in public schools. Why would an atheist not have the same right, to have strong feeling as to whether or not there are gods?


Seems an awful lot of Christians, I could say theists, but it tends to be Christians don't seem to feel everyone has the same right to air their thoughts as Christians do.


***Why should an atheist have to be passive? You are not.






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