Mar 19, 2012 -- 9:19AM, Lilwabbit wrote:

Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:31AM, Ibn wrote:

Allah's wrath is on anyone who disbelieves in the revelation from Allah (2:61) including those who were before believing in Allah and the last day.

No it's not.

(002.062) Verily, those who have attained to faith (amanú), as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe (amaná) in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.

(003.113-5) They are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people, who recite God's messages throughout the night, and prostrate themselves. They believe (umimún) in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works: and these are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, they shall never be denied the reward thereof: for, God has full knowledge of those who are conscious of Him.

What part of "the followers of earlier revelation" do you not understand? The Qur'án does not call those who have accepted the Qur'án as "the followers of earlier revelation", nor does it call them "those who follow the Jewish faith", "Christians" or "Sabians". It calls them "believers". Yet, Qur'án is explicit that among those who follow an earlier revelation there are people who shall not have any fear nor shall they grieve. If Allah's wrath was upon them as you seem to claim, they would surely need to have some fear and grief.

Moreover, nowhere does it say that the reward of these "followers of earlier revelation" is conditional upon them accepting the Qur'án. However, it does clearly state that their reward and freedom from fear is conditional upon belief in God, the Last Day and the doing of good. The rest is just your own invention. Those Jews that accepted the Qur'án are called "believers". They are no longer called "followers of an earlier revelation". These verses clearly state that there are among "those who follow an earlier revelation" good God-believing folks that will enter paradise. Plain and simple. To interpret otherwise is absurd.

The "disbelievers" in other verses refer usually to those people who not only did not accept the Qur'án but did something far worse. They turned against the Muslims, betrayed them and leagued themselves with their enemies. "Disbelievers" does not mean literally every single person in the world who does not accept the Qur'án for multifarious personal reasons. Just like "Jews not to be intimately befriended with" does not refer to every single Jew in the world, but rather the Medinan Jews (or the bulk of them) who leagued themselves with the Meccan Quraysh against the muhajirún. God is a merciful (rahmán) and loving (wadúd) God. He is reasonable. He sees people's hearts and sees the world isn't black and white. People are neither purely good nor purely evil. He sees the countless men and women in the world that are not believers in the Qur'án, but who are sincerely God-fearing, God-loving and genuinely inspired by God's earlier revelations. God demonstrates His love and ability to appreciate these different shades of grey in the two beautiful verses above. You should too, Ibn.

The more you deny the explicit words and intended meanings of the Qur'án by a literalist and extreme reading of terms like "disbeliever", the more absurd your argument gets, the more internal contradictions your Qur'án contains, and the more evil your God sounds. If you really believe in such a God, then it has nothing to do with the Qur'án.

Kind regards,

LilWabbit

Almumininah = believers. Who and how are they?

1-Believes of the reveal of the holy Qur'an.

Almuminina : 4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messenger., and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles…… ……..

2- True followers of earlier revelation, Al Zabour (Psalms), Torah,  Injeel, and  ALL other earlier holy revelation we do not know the details but we do know that  those "revelations" were stated  along the nation's olden times and diverge demographics.

 16:36 For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve Allah,  ……………..

Those all the believers from day one till the (Resurrection) Baath.

……..

And the nations were their "ethos" do exist @ the Qur'an's stage of reveals age, are;

A* Almoslimoona = 4:136/  2:285 as per above

B* Al'lazeena hadoo= Jewish

C* Annasarah = Christian

D* Al'sabieena = all other than the above two ethos.

These A, B, C, and D are all mankind ever do exiting from the Age Of the Holy Qur'an and up to the Resurrection time.

Now with these understandings the verse 2:62 is tell about all believers (faith ethos) prior and later formers ((   shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.))

There were "pure" Believers with Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed and many other Prophets and Messengers peace be upon them all.  And they are reward.

Whatever they were dressed (lost or astray) in their past will not cause them rejection if they truly reach and died with the "Faith's Ethos" they will get their REWARD not doubt.  

In other hand their past will not evade them not to change to the right path.

And this principle is not applicable with Man's Law, they look and search into the past of a man as soon as they catch a fault even for that slim and old one, then they jump and face him with, and they convict him accordingly. Daily we see such this In USA and Europe.

While Allah all mighty takes the forgiveness since the sinner stated firmly his self-regret. 

Man's law has no mercy has no value.   

In few words, every "believer" ((whatever his past is- every righteousness individuals)) in the past, present, and in future will be rewarded.  The matter is not what Believer was but it is what he is @ the time before he expired.

So it is not right to say all "Jewish are in hill,''' because people of Moses were "Bani Israel" And are supposed to be "Jew" with today perception, and were "true believers"  but any other than those "JEW" who reject Jesus saw and Mohammed saw as well, they are not the same "Jew" of  "pure Bani Israel".  UNLESS THEY TURN TO BELIEVE WITH MOHAMMEDsaw, TURN TO CONVERT TO ISLAM,… OTHERWIZE THEY ARE "discards" AND ARE NOT ENCLUDE WITH THE Verse's Reward.

salam   

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:56PM, Miraj wrote:

Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:55AM, Ibn wrote:

Wrong! Belief of 3 gods (shirk of trinity) was not quite the same as today. For that reason, I agree with brother visio.  

Then, both of you are wrong.

That makes a Muslim trinity. LOL!

Singapore is fairly liberal in relation to heterosexual marriage, but one can be put in prison for being Gay or Lesbian in Singapore. I think it carries a 10 year prison sentence.

Mar 20, 2012 -- 5:13PM, steven_guy wrote:

Singapore is fairly liberal in relation to heterosexual marriage, but one can be put in prison for being Gay or Lesbian in Singapore. I think it carries a 10 year prison sentence.

I don't think the OP is about what is the Common Law in Singapore is.   It is about the Islamic Law on (interfaith) marriages as applied by the Community of Muslims in Singapore and thus reflecting their interpretation of the Sharia' and Fiqh Laws/Commands in the Al-Quran.    We aren't even talking about whether they are (in reference to the Constitution of the state of Singapore) legally binding or not.

For any one's information here, Muslims community in Singapore, just like their fellow Muslims in Malaysia and the oil state of Brunei are sunnis of the shafie' tradition.   The Islamic Fatwa Council of these 3 countries do meet regularly to streamline their interpretation and corrective action plan to a standard common approach of resolving all religious issues.   In the matter of implementation the timing is left for the Fatwa Council in each state to decide based on their comfort/convenience level.   In Malaysia, for example, pre-marriage classes, even between Muslim pairs, have been initiated and made mandatory.   It is never meant to discourage people but to make sure that any couple is given a maximum opportunity to understand what Islamic marriage is all about which include all the do's and dont's based on the current understanding/interpretation of the Sharia and Fiqh Laws of the Al-Quran/Hadiths.  No exams, just a certificate of attendance.  I do not know whether the Islamic community of Singapore has implemented this corrective action plan, as yet.

Personally, what I see what those persons in the council are doing are just extending and in response to the very message of ALLAH^swt's in the Al-Quran that says ALLAH^swt's won't punish people until the (message of) the Laws are made known to them thru His Messengers.   To be fair they are taking every heed and hints of ALLAH^swt's Guidance in the Al-Quran.

All these measures are just human screening and educating measures to explain what Islamic marriages and/or marriages in Islam are all about for those who believe in ALLAH^swt and and His Guidance of the Straight Path for the couplet (soul + mind/spirit) of Man (bani-Adam) and Jinn (bani-Israel) to return to Finally return to Him on their Last Day on earth, in the heavens and in the paradise.  

And as Isa^saw (Jesus) once said, in a Gospel,  in ALLAH^swt (Ela/Elohim) is both male and female.  And in this phenomenal Universe, when the male is manifested, the female is hidden.  And, when the female is manifested, the male is hidden.  And awaiting for each of us, in a realm above the paradise, is each of our rightful spouse, husband-wife (for bani-Adam) or Parent,  Father-Mother (for bani-Israel).

For those heterosexual - you are closer to the divine, if it has been made to you.   Marriage hasn't been prescribed for you because ALLAH^swt's Kingdom is closer to you than your jugular vein, unless you are so carried away by the lowly man and woman of both bani-Adam and bani-Israel.  Be brave enough to choose either a male or female life, perform as-salat, zakat and do all that are goods and you'll among the early birds of the flowing control volume of 70,000 angels queing up at the gate at Sidrat-ul- Muntaha to enter ALLAHswt's Kingdom.

Mar 21, 2012 -- 3:25AM, Ibn wrote:

Mar 20, 2012 -- 7:20PM, Miraj wrote:

5:5 tells us what kind of non-Muslims a Muslima can marry: the same kind a Muslim man can marry.

5:5 does not tell you what kind of non-Muslim a Muslima can marry; you are making it up from yourself. This is why Allah never chose a woman messenger to deliver His Message. Allah knew what would happen to a verse like 5:5 because of her rebellion.

I'll make dua for you, bro.