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Switch to Forum Live View Hajj show seeks to lift veil on key Islamic ritual
3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 5:44PM #21
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

My neighbor's son made the Haj. He was on leave from the navy. He said he had no problems being American, but he made sure no one knew he was a US Navy sailor. I can understand why members of the US military might run into some problems in Mecca. That sailor, by the way, said he found it very uplifting and he's glad he went. His father also made the Haj but decades ago.


And by the way...Muslim members...am I correct in writing 'made the Haj'??? I'd just as soon say it right.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 7:02PM #22
Ibn
Posts: 4,866

Jan 30, 2012 -- 5:44PM, rangerken wrote:


My neighbor's son made the Haj. He was on leave from the navy. He said he had no problems being American, but he made sure no one knew he was a US Navy sailor. I can understand why members of the US military might run into some problems in Mecca. That sailor, by the way, said he found it very uplifting and he's glad he went. His father also made the Haj but decades ago.


And by the way...Muslim members...am I correct in writing 'made the Haj'??? I'd just as soon say it right.


Ken



"Made the Hajj" is fine. Hajj is associated with a journey. When one "sets out" to make the journey, s/he is on Hajj. Actual Hajj begins from a journey from Kaaba out of Makkah city and is completed by return to Kaaba 4 days later, having walked for many miles (transport is available but walking is better if possible). On completion, one regards having "performed Hajj". But for us, people from countries thousands of miles away from Makkah, we often say in our first languages as "having made Hajj". To Muslims, the true meaning is obvious even if we say "we went for Hajj".


The important part is the spiritual journey and spiritual fulfilment even though a lot of physical hardship is involved. I took my daughter, who had just graduated from a university in London, and she tells me that it was the best thing she has done in her life even though she was ill in Madina (before getting to Makkah) for several days and I had to take her to hospital there three times. 


When on Hajj journey, one learns patience and learns to control anger. One goes through awe-inspiring moments that stay in his/her memory for the rest of his/her life. Person making Hajj sincerely is never the same personality when s/he comes back.


No wonder your neighbours sound like good people!

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 7:04PM #23
visio
Posts: 3,322

There must be something unique in the astral dimension of the whole place ........ it is so purifying as if part of or all the bad astral layers within each visitor entering the place for the first time are removed wholly or at the least, partially.  To some the removal could be so painful as to make them realise and make an instant repentance, to others the removal opened up the veil of another higher level of wisdom knowledge.  It seems everything is structured for a spiritual uplift for everyone - the good, the bad and the ugly.  


There is an interesting hadith wherein Prophet Muhammadsaw mentioned/suggested the uniqueness of this place where ALLAHswt guided Ibrahimsaw to abandon them at.   Let me quote part of it as the following:


[Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol.4, #583] 


............ So he (Ibrahim) came to Ishmael's wife and asked her about Ishmael. She (Ismael's second wife) said, 'He has gone in search of our livelihood.' Abraham asked her, 'How are you getting on?' asking her about their sustenance and living. She replied, 'We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything in abundance).' Then she thanked Allah' Abraham said, 'What kind of food do you eat?' She said. 'Meat.' He said, 'What do you drink?' She said, 'Water." He said, "O Allah! Bless their meat and water."  The Prophet (Muhammadsaw) added, "At that time they did not have grain, and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allah to bless it." The Prophet added, "If somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected, unless he lives in Mecca."


The statements of uniqueness are as underlined.  I guess that would call for a serious all out scientific investigation.


I have not yet performed my Haj.  But on the two occassion that I have performed the umrah (little Hajj) my feeling was that it was the only place, I felt where I made perfection in my Salat.  There is Yoga in it.  And also there is Tai-Chi in it. All under the tawhid of the Al-Quran.  

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 7:40PM #24
Ibn
Posts: 4,866

Salaam, brother visio


You certainly have described the moments you must have come within the vicinity of the Kaaba. That moment of course is special. Standing in Arafat on the Day of Arafah is also very special. I urge you to consider it if you can financially as it is fardh.


Salaam 

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 10:49AM #25
visio
Posts: 3,322


Jan 30, 2012 -- 7:40PM, Ibn wrote:


Salaam, brother visio


You certainly have described the moments you must have come within the vicinity of the Kaaba. That moment of course is special. Standing in Arafat on the Day of Arafah is also very special. I urge you to consider it if you can financially as it is fardh.


Salaam 




Thank you for your motivating words.   Actually we (myself & wife) have it planned for this year.   She was supposed to retire from her government service early this month January).  However, when the Government decided to extend the retirement age from 58 to 60 years, early last month, and from last minute pep talks from her dept. she decided to extend her service by another two years.  There I had it.  So now, we'll have to figure out a new plan/arrangement.


Yes, the climax of the Day at the Plain of Arafah.   There are all sorts of feelings I can keep on imagining if I ever make it at the place.   And I used to tell all my friends whom I met before they went on board the plane:   "Don't think of anything else at the plain of Arafah, other than begging from ALLAHswt in total submission and surrender of body and spirit/mind, to show who you really are, were and will be and why you are still here?"  May be ALLAHswt will make it easier and give me some moments to make that request and provide me with a clear answers.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 4:10PM #26
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,039

Ibn and Visio


Remember what you have written when you tell me that Israel should turn over Jerusalem to the goyim. Would you turn Mecca and the Kabbah over to unbelievers? Of course not.   

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 7:14PM #27
visio
Posts: 3,322


Jan 31, 2012 -- 4:10PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Ibn and Visio


Remember what you have written when you tell me that Israel should turn over Jerusalem to the goyim.



I can't remember writing anything specific to that effect.   Please don't try to interpolate or extrapolate or make wild assumption on what I wrote.   And as I do not know much about your term goyim (which I suppose a Jewish or Hebrew or Aramaic term), perhaps, you can enlighten me what really means.   May be that can help me identify where it fits into the Al-Quranic defined distinction of the disposition of Bani-Israel and Bani-Adam in the context of the whole mankind.                          


 


Would you turn Mecca and the Kabbah over to unbelievers? Of course not.   




The invitation was given to both Bani-Israel and Bani-Adam 1400+ years ago by Prophet Muhammadsaw when ALLAHswt (the God of Ibrahimsaw who left Hagar & Ismael in the wilderness of the barren Makkah - under His Command and Guidance, of course) gave His Full Commands in the form of the Al-Quran.   And the Al-Quran, as ALLAHswt has it declared, is meant for all believing muslims who believe in and have faith in it, of mankind and jinnkind which translates to both Bani-Israel and Bani-Adam.   And as said in the Al-Quran Muhammadsaw was made withness to crowds of the jinnkind (Bani-Israel) in their invincible world who listened, inspired and became believers in their own way, when and wherever the Wods othe Al-Quran are recited.   And a great multitude of them when made to descend as man were either born as Muslims or, by the Will of ALLAHswt became Muslims by their ownselves.   Neither Muhammadsaw nor ALLAHswt has ever withdrawn that invitation for those unbelievers willing to repent.   And  when ALLAHswt has it declared as the city of His Protection and Sanctification, it is the sacred burden of every believing muslim - His slaves, to sustain it's spiritual purity.  And you are right, it is not a place for unbelievers, nor for hypocrites.   


And just as you or anyone else would like to know, something that I don't mind to share, a statement from my late spiritual mentor, there are only two places in this whole world where an enlightened person will witness a continous congregation of angels (if you believe in one). One is in and around the Himalayas.   The other is Makkah.   Jerusalem is not in their maps. If not for his spirit (that at one time dwelled in Jerusalem) Muhammadsaw would not make it a stopover in his Night Journey (Isra' & Mi'raj).   When Muhammadsaw witnessed ALLAHswt blessings upon Hagar & Ismael, his spirit and body surrendered and submitted and focus his soul his to Makkah as his landmark sign of ALLAHswt blessings.  And the veils of ALLAHswt are much more transparent behind the congregation of Angels.   Consequential to this the Qiblat of Muslims prayer was switched to the Ka'abah in Makkah.   As I said before among those who flock Makkah during the Hajj season, quite a large proportion of them are repenting Bani-Israel.   It is a matter of one knowing it or not knowing it. 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 7:44PM #28
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,039

Visio


I can not help you with your understanding of a misunderstanding and a false distinction which is not inherent in Islam and which flies in the face of both facts and scripture and with which I strongly disagree as inherently anti-semitic and which does not reflect well on its proponents. 


I can help you with the meaning of goyim. Goyim means"the nations", as in the nations which are not Jewish/the children of Israel/Hebrews/Bene Israel/Ivri/Israelites/ or anything else you would like to call the Jewish people. It is a nicer term than the Islamic term infidel or unbeliever as it has no negative connotation whatsoever.


For some reason, various Goyim believe that Israel and the Jewish people should do what they (the Goyim) would never consider - giving their holiest sites to others. (The fact that the others to whom Israel is being requested give these sites has a history of desecration of the sites and prevention of Jews to access the sites seems to have no effect on the desire of the Goyim for Jews to give up these sites) Since I know that you would never consider giving Mecca and the Kabbah to unbelievers, I assume that you would not insist that Jews turn over sites at least equally as important to Judaism as Mecca and the Kabbah is to Islam to unbelievers.    

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 5:15AM #29
Ibn
Posts: 4,866

Jan 31, 2012 -- 4:10PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Ibn and Visio


Remember what you have written when you tell me that Israel should turn over Jerusalem to the goyim. Would you turn Mecca and the Kabbah over to unbelievers? Of course not.   



As usual, you keep misunderstanding what you are reading here.That is how you have misunderstood both the Torah and the Qur'an too.


You are the first one to write about "goyim" here. You are still stuck in your tribal (goyim) mentality. The twelve tribes of Israel are regarded as "goyim". Here is the proof from the Qur'an:


[7.160] And We divided them into twelve tribes, as nations; and We revealed to Moses when his people asked him for water: Strike the rock with your staff, so out flowed from it twelve springs; each tribe knew its drinking place; and We made the clouds to give shade over them and We sent to them manna and quails: Eat of the good things We have given you. And they did not do Us any harm, but they did injustice to their own souls.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 5:31AM #30
Ibn
Posts: 4,866

Jan 31, 2012 -- 7:44PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

For some reason, various Goyim believe that Israel and the Jewish people should do what they (the Goyim) would never consider - giving their holiest sites to others.


Exactly! Why should anyone give their holy sites in Jerusalem to certain tribes of Israel as their tribal inheritance when the whole world people can have them as their holy sites? 


Jan 31, 2012 -- 7:44PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Since I know that you would never consider giving Mecca and the Kabbah to unbelievers, I assume that you would not insist that Jews turn over sites at least equally as important to Judaism as Mecca and the Kabbah is to Islam to unbelievers.


That's right, we do not want the holy sites in Jerusalem to go to unbelievers in the Revelation of the Qur'an who had made those sites into a garbage dump. Of course we will let you keep the wall as it was not made dirty by your garbage. We respect your right to worship there. I would do everything to protect it for you so that you could worship there. I would also do everything possible to protect the Christian holy sites so that the Christians have freedom to worship there.


As for Makkah and Kaaba, it is not reserved for any tribe or tribes of Israel but open to all believers. That's why even the Jews like Leopold Weiss (Muhammad Asad) have been going there as believers. You too can have it once you become a believer in the Message of Qur'an just as we are believers in the Message of the Taurat.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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