I do not know yet who I will vote for in 2012, but I know it will not be for President Obama, and I know it will not be for Mitt Romney. I am against Obama because I am opposed to just about everything he has done and wants to do as President. I am against Romney because he is a Mormon. On the surface that may sound like I hate Mormons, but that is not the case. One can disagree with a religion without hating the people who believe in it. Indeed, one can disagree with the Mormon religion in general, yet still agree with many things that Mormonism holds in high regards. And while Mormonism has not officially endorsed the Republican Party, my perception is that the majority of Mormons are Conservatives, if not members of the Republican Party.
I am against Romney because as a Mormon, he believes in Joseph Smith Jr. All Mormons, as a matter of course, have to believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God. And that means to me that Romney thinks in idealic terms of a man I hold in total distain, a man I see as a blasphemer, adulterer, criminal and a false prophet. Would you want a man as President, leading the nation, representing America to the world, who idolizes one of the most provocative men, if not the biggest lightning-rod, in American history? That’s my primary beef with Mitt Romney… and why I will not vote for the guy even if he wins the Republican Nominee.
I do not know yet who I will vote for in 2012, but I know it will not be for President Obama, and I know it will not be for Mitt Romney. I am against Obama because I am opposed to just about everything he has done and wants to do as President. I am against Romney because he is a Mormon. On the surface that may sound like I hate Mormons, but that is not the case. One can disagree with a religion without hating the people who believe in it. Indeed, one can disagree with the Mormon religion in general, yet still agree with many things that Mormonism holds in high regards. And while Mormonism has not officially endorsed the Republican Party, my perception is that the majority of Mormons are Conservatives, if not members of the Republican Party.
I am against Romney because as a Mormon, he believes in Joseph Smith Jr. All Mormons, as a matter of course, have to believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God. And that means to me that Romney thinks in idealic terms of a man I hold in total distain, a man I see as a blasphemer, adulterer, criminal and a false prophet. Would you want a man as President, leading the nation, representing America to the world, who idolizes one of the most provocative men, if not the biggest lightning-rod, in American history? That’s my primary beef with Mitt Romney… and why I will not vote for the guy even if he wins the Republican Nominee.
~ Theophilus
If I refused to vote for a man who did not profess a religion started or hijacked by a heretic then the only man I could have voted for in my lifetime was Dukakis. I voted for Bush, of course. I would trust a Mormon to have good Christian values and protect Christian perogatives in this country, so I could vote for Romney. No reason to cut off ones nose to spite ones face.
The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose; and the text of Scripture which he now most commonly quotes is, “The Kingdom of heaven is within you.” That text has been the stay and support of more Pharisees and prigs and self-righteous spiritual bullies than all the dogmas in creation; it has served to identify self-satisfaction with the peace that passes all understanding.
If I refused to vote for a man who did not profess a religion started or hijacked by a heretic then the only man I could have voted for in my lifetime was Dukakis.
Granted that from your perspective (Orthodox) most, if not all previous Presidents and hopeful candidates were heretics, or were at best, members of a Church started by heretics. But I would still say that there is considerable difference between such men and a man like Joseph Smith Jr. Remember – Joseph Smith ran for president back in the day. Would you want Smith as your President? Remember, he was not just a heretic – but advocated the spoiling of the gentiles, was a criminal and was sitting in jail when he was killed.
If you would not vote for a man like Smith, why would you vote for any man who believes he restored the only true church to earth, was a Prophet of God of greater statue than Moses… and is the one man we must believe in – in order to live in the truth? Some things people believe have little to no affect on their Presidency… other things do.
The position Mormons accord Joseph Smith, in their own minds and as a fundamental of the LDS religion, disqualifies any of them from being a President for all the people, at least in my mind. If a Mormon gets elected President, he will be a Mormon President, and will be directly accountable to the LDS First Presidency and their quorum of false apostles. Romney may make a great CEO, if you’re not employed by a company he’s raiding, but I don’t want him as President and I will not vote for him.
I would trust a Mormon to have good Christian values and protect Christian perogatives in this country, so I could vote for Romney.
So would I, (about the values part) even so, I have been burned too many times by Mormon businss associates, and I have way too many Mormon relatives who are low-lifes in my opinion, so I do not think very highly of Mormon family values.
No reason to cut off ones nose to spite ones face.
Sorry but our nose was cut off long time ago. The Republicans have not given us anybody worth voting for since Reagan and I am tired of voting for the lesser evil. I will vote for Newt, but I will not vote for Romney.
As a non-US citizen, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find your agrgument to be specious, Theo. I don't have a clue as to what faith or non-faith my city councillor, or my Member of Parliament hold. I know that my Member of the Provincial Legislature is an Anglican. but I only know that because I know his father-in-law (a retired Anglican Bishop) and his mother-in-law (a retired Anglican priest), and that he and his wife attend a nearby Anglican Church where the priest is a friend of mine.
I wouldn't care if any of my political representatives practiced Agnosticism, Atheism, Christianity, Bahai, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Mormonism, Native Spirituality, Sikhism or Taoism. I vote for the person whom I think will best serve me and my neighbours, and so far all three have done well. They are principled, hard-working and honest.
Tell me, Theo, will you vote for the adulterous opportunist who started out life as a Lutheran, became a Baptist, and now professes to be a Roman Catholic? Or how about the former head of a national fast food corporation who seemingly makes a hobby of cheating on his wife while telling the world that God told him to run for the Top Job. Maybe you'd prefer the doofus who believes that God made the world in six 24-hour days, that 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' doesn't carry weight in Texas, even if the person scheduled for execution is proved by DNA evidence to be innocent. Or how about Michele 'Pray the gay away' Bachmann who appears to be a bear of very little brain? I believe Mitt Romney is a better choice than all of them, and far superior to Newt 'I'm for sale' Gingrich!
I remember when JFK was running for President and his detractors were convinced that his first allegiance would be to the Pope! I guess this is history repeating itself.
"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright." from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
I have plenty of reasons not to vote for him besides picking out his religion alone as a reason. Harry Reid is a Mormon too. He doesn't seem like too bad of a guy, he's a little spinless politically though.
Remember, he was not just a heretic – but advocated the spoiling of the gentiles, was a criminal and was sitting in jail when he was killed.
[citation needed]
No matter what charges the opponents of the church brought, none of them ever stuck.
So on what basis do you call him a criminal or accuse him of advocating violence?
The position Mormons accord Joseph Smith, in their own minds and as a fundamental of the LDS religion, disqualifies any of them from being a President for all the people, at least in my mind.
Like being beholden to the Pope would make a Catholic inelligible for the Presidency?
I agree with Theo that Joseph Smith probably made most of it up as he went along.
I don't think that disqualifies Romney from office, though. A lot of the authors of the books that came to be collected into the BIble probably did too. Christianity handily solves that problem by calling them "inspired". Christianity's claim of inspiriation for its own scriptures doesn't preclude the possibility that similar inspiration may have been received elsewhere. To the contrary, it supports that possibility.
That's because the Holy Spirit works directly on each human heart, and makes use of many flawed vessels, as Christians already know. The authors (and readers) of the Bible weren't the only ones, ever. Even if Smith pulled all that history and cosmology right out of his own kiester, and nobody who is not Mormon believes in its authenticity, the Mormon ethical system is still essentially sound, because at least that part of it recognizably comes from the Holy Spirit and not Smith himself. We know that from its consistency with other, older, ethical systems and from the good fruit that it bears. We know it because the same Holy Spirit that works on Christian hearts also works on people of good will in all other cultures and religions to show them right from wrong.
I will probably not vote for Romney -- not because I don't share his religion, but because I doubt his personal integrity, and I fear his politics and policies will be even worse for the nation and the economy than Obama's.
"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
I agree with Theo that Joseph Smith probably made most of it up as he went along.
I don't think that disqualifies Romney from office, though. A lot of the authors of the books that came to be collected into the BIble probably did too. Christianity handily solves that problem by calling them "inspired". Christianity's claim of inspiriation for its own scriptures doesn't preclude the possibility that similar inspiration may have been received elsewhere. To the contrary, it supports that possibility.
That's because the Holy Spirit works directly on each human heart, and makes use of many flawed vessels, as Christians already know. The authors (and readers) of the Bible weren't the only ones, ever. Even if Smith pulled all that history and cosmology right out of his own kiester, and nobody who is not Mormon believes in its authenticity, the Mormon ethical system is still essentially sound, because at least that part of it recognizably comes from the Holy Spirit and not Smith himself. We know that from its consistency with other, older, ethical systems and from the good fruit that it bears. We know it because the same Holy Spirit that works on Christian hearts also works on people of good will in all other cultures and religions to show them right from wrong.
I will probably not vote for Romney -- not because I don't share his religion, but because I doubt his personal integrity, and I fear his politics and policies will be even worse for the nation and the economy than Obama's.
I agree-just because Joey Smith was a scumbag-doesn't mean a thing about Romney. Besides-what we really need to worry about is the owners of a given candidate-who funded them, which corporations do they represent-then guess what that means for us as the Americans the candidates will supposedly work for. JFK is a good example-but maybe he was our last good president.... (although Carter wasn't bought and had good intentions).
It's fascism here in the US these days-so frankly, it doesn't matter who wins, they're all the same. Romney isn't the obvious choice, so to me-that gives him a leg up as possibly doing something decent (ie doing his job). I think mormon theology is as bad as it gets, but that doesn't tell me a thing about the individuals who believe in it-such an assumption of a perfect correlation is short sighted and foolish.
For example, despite how obnoxious some of the mormons on this board are... they are likely a minority and should not be used to judge mormonism in general
Well I could have posted this thread on the discuss Mormonism thread had I wanted to - but I did not want to debate Mormons about why I will not be voting for Romney. Some of those who responded made some good points, which is why I wanted to engage other "Christians" about not supporting Romney. The only thing I have to discuss with Mormons is Scripture, which is why I gave up on this forum... and why I am droping off this thread.
