Nov 12, 2011 -- 9:49PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 8:26PM, Neomonist wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 7:36PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 4:31PM, Neomonist wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 4:10PM, williejhonlo wrote:

I don't believe that our consciences are conditioned by genes and environment, but rather by  belief.I believe that we have a "will" that makes what we do more spontaneous rather than just being automata.

I think of it more as we are constrained by the genes and environment. Our genetic makeup is human, which limits our consciousness to human awareness and we have a human environmental background that shapes our beliefs. We do have a "will" that allows us to go beyond - for example, because of physical limitataions, we cannot fly under our own power, but we have devised airplanes to go beyond that limitation.

 

Hi Neo, glad to have you back,what do you think of conscience? our feelings of guilt, of doing something wrong to someone and making amends. I think you would have to have a measure of goodness in your heart to have a conscience.

There is a "something" in our makeup that can be called "goodness" otherwise we would have never survived our earliest days as a species. I wouldn't go so far as to say this is caused by genetics or upbringing alone - I submit it emerged from a combination that except for rare instances, acts somewhat like a positive feedback loop.

I know, I've criticized emergence, but there is a certain validity to the concept.

 

I agree, I wouldn' say it's caused by genetics or upbringing alone as well. The goodness is something that can counteract the passion and arrogance within us. It's a quality  that exist to keep us in check,that keeps us sane. It sits dormant until we activate it by our desire to improve ourselves.

And by improving ourselves, we improve all we come into contact with.

Nov 12, 2011 -- 9:59PM, Neomonist wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 9:49PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 8:26PM, Neomonist wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 7:36PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 4:31PM, Neomonist wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 4:10PM, williejhonlo wrote:

I don't believe that our consciences are conditioned by genes and environment, but rather by  belief.I believe that we have a "will" that makes what we do more spontaneous rather than just being automata.

I think of it more as we are constrained by the genes and environment. Our genetic makeup is human, which limits our consciousness to human awareness and we have a human environmental background that shapes our beliefs. We do have a "will" that allows us to go beyond - for example, because of physical limitataions, we cannot fly under our own power, but we have devised airplanes to go beyond that limitation.

 

Hi Neo, glad to have you back,what do you think of conscience? our feelings of guilt, of doing something wrong to someone and making amends. I think you would have to have a measure of goodness in your heart to have a conscience.

There is a "something" in our makeup that can be called "goodness" otherwise we would have never survived our earliest days as a species. I wouldn't go so far as to say this is caused by genetics or upbringing alone - I submit it emerged from a combination that except for rare instances, acts somewhat like a positive feedback loop.

I know, I've criticized emergence, but there is a certain validity to the concept.

 

I agree, I wouldn' say it's caused by genetics or upbringing alone as well. The goodness is something that can counteract the passion and arrogance within us. It's a quality  that exist to keep us in check,that keeps us sane. It sits dormant until we activate it by our desire to improve ourselves.

And by improving ourselves, we improve all we come into contact with.

Agreed.

Nov 12, 2011 -- 10:21PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 10:05PM, Namchuck wrote:

Nov 12, 2011 -- 4:10PM, williejhonlo wrote:

I don't believe that our consciences are conditioned by genes and environment, but rather by  belief.I believe that we have a "will" that makes what we do more spontaneous rather than just being automata.

Beliefs are very much a part of our environment, williejhonlo, and I can't recall anyone suggesting that we are just "automata". Unlike most other animals, our subjectivity prevents us from being that. Consequently, you are no more your genes than you are your environment. You are a bit of both, but you are also your capacity to transcend both. It is this transcendental quality that makes us human.

I agree with a lot of what you say here namchuck.

That's good, williejhonlo.

Perhaps we can then explore those parts of what I have said that you don't agree with?