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Switch to Forum Live View School Tells Girl Wearing Rosary Violates Dress Code
3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 4:26AM #41
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Oct 8, 2011 -- 3:54AM, Wanderingal wrote:

Dot--I know a little bit about Kabbala (about the Tree of Life for example which is pretty interesting stuff IMO) --have done some reading and talking with some practitioners but I hadn't come across that fact. I wonder if google will be a help with that...




I'm not sure, Wgal, but I doubt that google will help you much in understanding actual Kabbalists' use of the swastika. Anything very detailed to do with Kabbalah is still highly esoteric within Judaism, hubby said. He wasn't allowed to learn anything as a teenager beyond somewhat general information.


What you'll get from reliable Jewish sites is going to be the public info and would be unlikely to get into the use of the swastika for obvious reasons.


Most of what you'll find via google is going to be occultist Kabbalah. (If you want a reputable general work on it for occultists, Dion Fortune's book is worthwhile, IMO.) It's important in my own belief system, but I haven't studied it much; doing so is a very complex endeavor. And hubby says what occultists have done with Kabbalah (think Madonna here) is a corruption based on superficial knowledge of it.


That's why some in my branch of occultism refer to what we do with the spelling Qabalah or acronym QBL, to distinguish.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 10:32AM #42
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Mega-OOPS! Hubby corrected my faulty memory. I had this nagging feeling something wasn't right in what I was saying:  The Nazi swastika is the reverse of the Jewish one! 


:::: wiping dozen eggs off face ::::

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 6:48PM #43
TemplarS
Posts: 6,715

You know, the case of the swastika is a parallel to this one.  But the exactness of the parallel hinges on the extent to which there were people who were contemporaneously using the swastika as a cultural or religious symbol.   People in India or native Americans, as WGal mentions, would not have been directly impacted by anything happening in Germany until the war, at least; so the Nazis were not appropriating a symbol while it was still in use by people in their own country.  


Nonetheless, I feel some sense of regret that these other cultures lost what might have been a traditional symbol due to the Nazi horror.  Sort of the same way  Germanic languages lost what had previously been a fine name- Adolf.  


As for:


Oct 8, 2011 -- 12:24AM, Roodog wrote:



The Celtic Cross has been adopted by Naziesque White Supremists as one of their symbols. The same symbol that adorn Catholic, Episcopal and Presbyterian Churches. Should these  churches be forced to take down (and off) their Celtic Crosses because these thugs hijacked the symbol. The same goes for the rosary.




I see a similar struggle over the name "Christian", if not yet the symbol.  Because of the way the term has been used in an exclusive way by some segments of the religion, there is this constant battle whereby other Christians, who are in reality more Christian than these fringe elements, need to defend themselves against, on the one hand, these fringe groups who will claim that they are not really Christian; and, on the other hand, the understandable backlash generated against "Christians" by the actions of this fringe (eg., see the "Christians assault gay couple" thread).



 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 8:30PM #44
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

Oct 8, 2011 -- 6:48PM, TemplarS wrote:



You know, the case of the swastika is a parallel to this one.  But the exactness of the parallel hinges on the extent to which there were people who were contemporaneously using the swastika as a cultural or religious symbol.   People in India or native Americans, as WGal mentions, would not have been directly impacted by anything happening in Germany until the war, at least; so the Nazis were not appropriating a symbol while it was still in use by people in their own country.  


Nonetheless, I feel some sense of regret that these other cultures lost what might have been a traditional symbol due to the Nazi horror.  Sort of the same way  Germanic languages lost what had previously been a fine name- Adolf.  






Neither the Hindus nor the Navajos (or example) hsve stopped using their cultural symbol. Though apparently the Nazi Party has.....


I know through personal experience about the Navajo use of the symbol (It relates to the Creation Twins) and I recently saw a documentary aboput some Hindu holy days that were being celebrated last year and which involved the prominent use of the symbol.


So I don' think you have to bemoan that.


The six thousand+ year religion and the thousand year old religion have survived the Nazis' attgempt to coopt their symbols.


And I don't see the Catholics losing their rosaries either.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 8:32PM #45
TemplarS
Posts: 6,715

Oct 8, 2011 -- 8:30PM, Wanderingal wrote:


 


Neither the Hindus nor the Navajos (or example) hsve stopped using their cultural symbol. Though apparently the Nazi Party ahs.....


I know thrugh eprsonal experience about the Navajo use of the symbol (It relates to the Creation Twins) and I recenlty saw a documetnary aboput some Hindu holy days that were being celebrated last year andnwhich involved the prominent use of the symbol.


So I don' think you have to bemoan that.


The six thousand+ year religion and the thousand year old religion have survived the Nazis' attgempt to coopt their symbols.






 


Glad to hear that!


 


Thanks for the info!


 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2011 - 8:36PM #46
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

You're welcome. The PBS documentary channel ran a documentary on Hinduism last week and the film pointed out the continuing use of the swastika in relation to several deities--Kali and Vishnu.


 (If you ever want info like this ask someone who has an advanced degree in Comparative Religions and Cultures.  We tend to make note of things like this. :)

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 6:11PM #47
Erey
Posts: 18,594

Schools are always trying to subvert expressions of gang activity, which is one reason why school uniforms have made such a come back.


The gangs will often adopt a pro team like the Kings or whatever and wear those jerseys.  Many schools that don't have a uniform policy will make it a rule that no team jerseys are allowed. 


 


I am not catholic but I think some rosaries are very pretty and would make a good neckalace.  When I was a young woman many people wore rosaries as a fashion statement (un related to gangs). 


 


I think schools should have broad ability to inhibit and limit expressions of gang or criminal activity for students while on campus.  In fact, I don't know why all schools don't just adopt a uniform policy. 


My son attends a catholic school and he said last year that a few students were written up in a rather dramatic fashion for wearing rosaries like necklaces. 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 7:29PM #48
REteach
Posts: 14,450

Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:06PM, DotNotInOz wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:01PM, Wanderingal wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 5:31PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 4:32PM, costrel wrote:


I was raised Catholic, and one of the things I was taught in 3rd grade as part of my First Communion education was that one does not wear a rosary as if it were a necklace. A rosary is not a piece of jewelry, and treating it as such is disrespectful. It makes me wonder what kind of a Catholic would actually wear a rosary as if it were a necklace. It's one thing to wear a necklace with a cross or a crucifix as a charm; it's quite another thing to wear a rosary around one's neck. If you must carry your rosary on your person, you secure it to your belt. There traditionally have been a number of different ways of doing this, from looping the rosary around the belt to securing it to the belt with hooks.



 


I went to Catholic school and was told the same exact thing. It is disrespectful to wear a rosary, it is NOT jewellery





That makes at least three of us. ;)




ME, TOO! That's four. ;-D



Ah, but I was not raised Catholic.  We were at a grotto once and I was thinking about buying a pretty beaded cross necklace.  My parents knew what it was and didn't let me, but I sure didn't know.  :)


I suppose the kids could go to school nude.  Or in black unitards.  Of course, some gangs may use black, so I suppose naked is the only way to go.  Probably shaving all body hair, too.  

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 8:34PM #49
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

Oct 10, 2011 -- 7:29PM, REteach wrote:


 Ah, but I was not raised Catholic.  We were at a grotto once and I was thinking about buying a pretty beaded cross necklace.  My parents knew what it was and didn't let me, but I sure didn't know.  :)


I suppose the kids could go to school nude.  Or in black unitards.  Of course, some gangs may use black, so I suppose naked is the only way to go.  Probably shaving all body hair, too.  




Nude is about the only way to go :))


But that would be so chilly in the winter

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 13, 2011 - 12:06AM #50
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:19PM, jane2 wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:09PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:06PM, DotNotInOz wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 6:01PM, Wanderingal wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 5:31PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Oct 7, 2011 -- 4:32PM, costrel wrote:


I was raised Catholic, and one of the things I was taught in 3rd grade as part of my First Communion education was that one does not wear a rosary as if it were a necklace. A rosary is not a piece of jewelry, and treating it as such is disrespectful. It makes me wonder what kind of a Catholic would actually wear a rosary as if it were a necklace. It's one thing to wear a necklace with a cross or a crucifix as a charm; it's quite another thing to wear a rosary around one's neck. If you must carry your rosary on your person, you secure it to your belt. There traditionally have been a number of different ways of doing this, from looping the rosary around the belt to securing it to the belt with hooks.




I went to Catholic school and was told the same exact thing. It is disrespectful to wear a rosary, it is NOT jewellery





That makes at least three of us. ;)




ME, TOO! That's four. ;-D




I am in good company :)





Add one more to make five.





I had seen rosaries hung from rear view mirrors of cars along with plastic images of Mary and Jesus on their dashboards.  (Anyone remember the old song "Plastic Jesus"?)

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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