May 11, 2011 -- 7:40AM, BIRK wrote:

   Love for self is a huge hurdle to overcome.

     Those who believe personal sacrifice to be a noble deed. call it a sickness.

    We are well trained to put the needs of others before our own, but I see this as THE TOOL that keeps us locked into a seriously limited perception.

Just a couple thoughts on your post ...
I don't see it quite that way.  It seems to be that love is a spiritual quality and can't be a negative thing.  Love of self is a love for the qualities we see within ("made in His image") and are God given attributes required in order to be self-giving.  I do not see any contradiction here either  ...

I'd say not to have love of self is to have hatred of self for without the spirtitual quality of love all that can be left is the defect of character called hate.  Having this imbalance, hatred of self will cause us to be self-serving.  In this state we erronously believe this to be our "true-selves" and live accordingly, which, in reality is a dissatified undeveloped self.  To compensate our egos defend our state by becoming very more self-serving and self-centered.  While people in this condition may seem to be "full of themselves" they are quite the opposite and can never be self-sacrificing and giving for they have nothing to give  ...

There are four levels of love, love of self or love of man, certainly not the highest form is still a spiritual quality without which we may never be able climb to more elevated expresssions of love ...

The four forms of love:  love of man for man, (our 1st love is love for our mother's for God's qualities are reflected there - created ion His image and developed outwards to others), love of man for God (deepening/refining the quality of love), love of God for man (giving us the power to progress spiritually), love of God for His creation (keeping everything progressing as it should). 

May 11, 2011 -- 7:40AM, BIRK wrote:

    We are well trained to put the needs of others before our own, but I see this as THE TOOL that keeps us locked into a seriously limited perception.

As I see it, it is the putting the needs of others before our own in order to gain merit and/or the praise of people that keeps us locked. Who needs merit or praise? Doing good is its own reward.

May 12, 2011 -- 3:08AM, Namchuck wrote:

May 11, 2011 -- 4:22PM, williejhonlo wrote:

If there is no self there can be no such thing as love.

There is a 'self' that is both capable of loving and being loved, it's just that there is no enduring self that survives the death of the brain that gives rise to it.

It all depends on what you choose to identify as the 'self'.

... we need a new kind of consciousness in which every individual becomes aware that his real self is not just his conscious ego. For example, let us consider a headlight of a car. The headlight shines on the road in front of it and not on the wire which connect it with its own battery. So, in a way, the headlight is unaware of how it shines, and in the same way we are unaware of the sources of our consciousness.

Alan Watts “The Tao of Philosophy” pg 19

May 11, 2011 -- 11:12PM, Neomonist wrote:

May 11, 2011 -- 7:40AM, BIRK wrote:

    We are well trained to put the needs of others before our own, but I see this as THE TOOL that keeps us locked into a seriously limited perception.

As I see it, it is the putting the needs of others before our own in order to gain merit and/or the praise of people that keeps us locked. Who needs merit or praise? Doing good is its own reward.

 Exactly the point.   Seeking approval outside of yourself from any being who fails to see their very own direct connection to Love is a lesson in futility and is sure to be greeted with less then loving circumstance.