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Switch to Forum Live View BAD Taoism Paths - examples and proofs
7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2011 - 1:27PM #1
Mak Tin Si
Posts: 74

There are a lot of BAD Taoism paths and lineages nowadays. They are BAD to the guts because the fact that they do sorcery/black magic/evil magic.  Here I have placed a few for you to see how the common and famous sects are crooked and evil to the guts.  There Taoism magic are all exposed to the public already because they have published tons of books for the public to buy and these are just so common and well known.

Not to scare you but these lineages which do evil magic also got so famous in Hong Kong and China to the point that these evil magic are on the newspaper and magazines all the time.  People there praise these evil magic to say they are great stuff!   I just can't believe how crooked people can go!

www.chiinnature.com/sorcerymain.html


 


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Moderated by rangerken on Apr 09, 2011 - 08:01PM
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2011 - 8:15AM #2
ToltecLogic
Posts: 178

Thank You Master Si,


Yes it is unfortunate that there is so much


misinformation which masquerades as truth.


And yet for the lone partitioner of the middle


Way there is still hope that we might find our


path through the maze of self-important


publications. Much has has been said in speaking


of the importance of triplex unity ~ of implementation


of physical, psychological and mental discipline in


the daily observation of the firing process or of the


alchemical furnace of creation, yet so few seem


to know of this essential practice.


For those of us who are fortunate enough to


stubble upon these core teaching such as 


"The Taoist I Ching" first published in 1796 by


Liu I-ming or the eleventh-century  'Book


of Change' by Cheng Yi in conjuction with an


understanding of any of the many varied tranlations


of the Tao Te Ching, perhaps there is hope


that we might discover our own way in the study


of inner design even without the direct


transmission of the oral tradition. Because


has it not been said that, "The alchemical classics


and writings of the adepts, amounting to thousands


of volumes, do not go beyond the principles of the


I Ching, and the principles of the I Ching, its


sixty-four hexagrams and three hundred eight-four


lines, do not go beyond this path of firm and flexible,


simple and ready knowledge and capacity, which are


both innate." Is this not "the path of the gold elixir,


the spiritual alchemy, the science of reversing the


overtaking of the celestial by the mundane..?"


But here again we here in the west are limited by


the quality and or the intent of our translations.


I Remain Your Most Humble Servant


In Spirit,


tl


 



 




The True Eternal Tao

"Whenever I see those whome the vulgar call devotees of the Tao,
I find that all of them seek to be taken in by spirits and immor-
tals, or they seek lasting life and preservation of wealth by the
practice of material alchemy or sexual yoga. When it comes to the
great Tao of true eternity, pure and open, tranquil and dispassionate,
there are few who are interested in it."



“Sages are sages simply because of the application of the
principles of the I Ching. Application of the I Ching is
accomplished simply by openness and tranguility. When open,
one takes in all; when tranquil, one perceives all. When
open, one can accept things, when tranquil, one can respond
to situations. If openness and tranquilitty are continued
for a long time, one becomes spiritually illumined.”

Book of Balance and Harmony


 


"When the fundamental is established, the path develops.
Once you recover your potential it is like it was always
there..."

“The true energy in people is like the master, acquired energy
is like the servant; getting entanglled in yin and
thus damaging the real with the artificial is feeding the
servant and losing the master…”

I Ching
   


There are no short cuts where harmony exist,
Building life apart from the conditioned mind
this discriminatory consciusness exist
only in temporal continuity which can not last.
Unaware of the unity underlying diversity
aberrant energy persist.
Physical, psychophysical or mental practice
conserve and circulate energy
taking over evolution
the four signs - strength,
flexibility, awareness, and love combine.
This primal unconditioned awareness
the process of internal unification
assembled under the force of will
the five elements are assembled
truthfulness and sincerity harmonize
benevolence, justice, courtesy and wisdom.
Without triplex unity aberranted schools
become fixated on ritualistic forms or
become lost in the void of quitism.
Extraordinary fixations distract from
genuine intent whereby yin and yang
are combined deep within the dragon's abyss...












Inside Out



If we are constant within change


like the Sun which remains


bright even in secret at night


not only upon it's rising


then contentment is supreme


without the weeds of desire


clogging the portal of awareness


Blind allegiance selfish and uncaring


will never rise up to the heights


Gradual development is the surest way


where as prompt delivery


gained in haste is soon wasted


If you know the firing process


for the gold elixer of illumination


then you have the quality of humilty


with great power in virtue


This is the Spirit of Tao


not detached but engaged on principle


 




"Although the words are very clear, yet they are also very
vague. The shallow may take the I Ching to be a book of
divination, but the profound consider it the secret of the
celestial mechanism."

Lu Tung-pin



"The Tao of spiritual alchemy is none other than the Tao
of the I Ching, the Tao of sages is none other than the Tao
of immortals, and that the I Ching is not a book of devina-
tion but rather is the study of investigation of
principles, fulfillment of nature, and arriving at the
meaning of life."

Liu I-ming










Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2011 - 8:37AM #3
ToltecLogic
Posts: 178

 



 


But of course it is said, The Tao that can be told


is not the eternal Tao and yet we know that nothing


of value comes into being without some form of


purposeful practice. It is a seeming paradox. On the


one hand we are told "The world is full of half-enlightened


masters. Overly clever, too 'sensitive' to live in the real


world, they surround themselves with selfish pleasures


and bestow their grandiose teachings upon the unwary...


What they really offer the world is their own confussion."


Whereas "The true master understands that enlightenment


is not the end, but the means. Realizing that virtue is her


goal, she accepts the long and often arduous cultivation


that is necessary to attain it...


The subtle truth can be pointed at with words, but it


can't be contained by them.


Take time to listen to what is said without words...


Encouraging others, giving freely to all...


The breath of the Tao speaks, and those who are in


harmony with it hear quite clearly..."


Hua Hu Ching


 


Which comes first enlightened practice or the


awakening? "'sometimes drumming, sometimes


stopping, sometimes crying, sometimes laughing...'


attempting forced manipulations... getting into


aberrant practices... is like faith in which one


finds enimies - failth becomes enmity; after a


time there inevitably comes a change, as one


first believes in this, then in that - vain and


insubstantial - when this practice doesn't work,


one then tries that practice..." as it is said,


"Beliving in what is not to belived will inevitably


destroy faith..." because "It's easy to work with


what is of the same species, hard to work with


what is not of the same kind..."


excerpts from The Taoist I Ching


 


Yet in faithfulness where strength


and flexibibility are one, where yin


and yang blend and merge, where


essence, feeling, vitality, and spirit


are correctly oriented truthfully


unified without division returning


to the center, where benevolence,


justice, courtesy, and wisdom return


to the mind completely integrated


with natural principle which is the


celestial design then this is faithfulness


which is firm and cannot be dissolved


 


"Even if you have complete faith, if that faith


is misplaced there will be regret and blame."


Ching Yi


Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2011 - 8:25PM #4
Mak Tin Si
Posts: 74

For replying the above person..


Your theory is more to the "new age", which I have already said in the article of "Taoism VS New Age" that it is also not a way to go.  Learning Taoism cannot be self-help or self-learned because the system is very massive and systematically organized.  If you just try to get bits and pieces of information here and there, you end up with a spoiled pot of salad like all new agers are like.  They all believed you can find a "unity way" by combining things together but too bad it's not how nature works.  There are just so many bad paths in the world that you will get fooled into.


I-Ching is not Taoism, it is only Chinese astronomy. I can tell you that guy named Liu I-Ming is not any person you would like to go for because he is already in a bad path himself.  This guy is a mix and he is a new ager mixing Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and more things into one, which means he is crooked.  To be honest, don't get into new age, you will just end up eating your own mixed pot of spoiled food and not even getting to know the real thing.  A crooked man writting crooked books, readers all end up crooked as well. 


Beware of frauds and scam, new agers are no different from scammers and frauds because they don't spend time learning the real thing and they claim to know the real thing.  These people find short cuts to learn bits and pieces from all over the world and think they got the right way.  Too bad, they didn't.  So don't even reference to his books.


 


 


 


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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 7:48AM #5
ToltecLogic
Posts: 178

We often hear that with 'great power'


comes great responsibility ~ there is no


decline of withdrawal that is not followed


by flourishing greatness that is within


each one of us. Yet to be always correct


it is dangerous to be unbending...


the greatness of firmness and strength


must be balanced in flexibility... courage


with no sense of justice or duty brings


on disorder like the force of an


undisciplined army leading by coercion


 


Yes Master Si, we here in the West may have the


added difficulty of multi-disciplinary New Age


interputations, but I think perhaps you may be


to quick to judge of our more prominent translations.


Clearly, as evidenced from the topic of the article


you have presented here, there is this problem


of occult or New Age influences on both sides of


the proverbial pond. But to say that your reply


seems a little disingenuous might be an


understatement, either that or we have two


entirely distinctly different definitions or


understandings of what exactly consitutes


so called New Age misrepresentations.


One of the more respected traslators of


sacred text in the US is Thomas Cleary


who holds a doctorate in East Asia


Languages and Civilizations from Harvard


University. He is the translator of more


than fifty volumes of Buddhist, Taoist,


Confucian, and Islamic texts from Sanskrit,


Chinese, Japanese, Pali, and Arabic, far from


what is typically understood here as being


New Age, but quite the contrary. However,


if you mean to suggest that Liu I-Ming by


virtue of his interdisciplinary approach to


Taoist representations is somehow considered


as being a part of the this concophony of


New Age sorcery run amuck here in the


West, then I must confess I don't quite get


the connection. If anything his work stands


as an antithesis to the standards that are


set in New Age publications here in the


States and other Westernized nations.


 


However, I will concede this, that it is rare


for any scholar of note to be completely


unbiased or as the old adage goes to make


of him or herself an empty cup that is capable


of receiving anything more of actual truth


or wisdom. That being said, I would have to


say that in most cases for being an academic


Cleary does pretty well in getting out of his


own way in representing the majority of


his translations, apart from the Tao Te Ching


which admitedly is not one of his better


efforts.


With Balance In Spirit,


tl 

Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 8:17AM #6
Mak Tin Si
Posts: 74

Apr 8, 2011 -- 7:48AM, ToltecLogic wrote:


We often hear that with 'great power'


comes great responsibility ~ there is no


decline of withdrawal that is not followed


by flourishing greatness that is within


each one of us. Yet to be always correct


it is dangerous to be unbending...


the greatness of firmness and strength


must be balanced in flexibility... courage


with no sense of justice or duty brings


on disorder like the force of an


undisciplined army leading by coercion


 


Yes Master Si, we here in the West may have the


added difficulty of multi-disciplinary New Age


interputations, but I think perhaps you may be


to quick to judge of our more prominent translations.


Clearly, as evidenced from the topic of the article


you have presented here, there is this problem


of occult or New Age influences on both sides of


the proverbial pond. But to say that your reply


seems a little disingenuous might be an


understatement, either that or we have two


entirely distinctly different definitions or


understandings of what exactly consitutes


so called New Age misrepresentations.


One of the more respected traslators of


sacred text in the US is Thomas Cleary


who holds a doctorate in East Asia


Languages and Civilizations from Harvard


University. He is the translator of more


than fifty volumes of Buddhist, Taoist,


Confucian, and Islamic texts from Sanskrit,


Chinese, Japanese, Pali, and Arabic far from


what is typically understood here as being


New Age, but quite the contrary. However,


if you mean to suggest that Liu I-Ming by


virtue of his interdisciplinary approach to


Taoist representations is somehow considered


as being a part of the this concophony of


New Age influences run amuck here in the


West, then I must confess I don't quite get


the connection. If anything his work stands


as an antithesis to the standards that are


set in New Age publications here in the


States and other Westernized nations.


 


However, I will concede this, that it is rare


for any scholar of note to be completely


unbiased or as the old adage goes to make


of him or herself an empty cup that is capable


of recieving anything more of actual truth


or wisdom. That being said, I would have to


say that in most cases for being an academic


Cleary does pretty well in getting out of his


own way in representing the majority of


his translations, apart from the Tao Te Ching


which admitedly is not one of his better


efforts.


With Balance In Spirit,


tl 




Responding to "ToltecLogic",


 


First, I would like to say I am not "Master Si".  My Taoist name is Mak Ching Yuen, in my profile I often refer to myself as "Mak Tin Si" or "Mak Jo Si".  If you insist to call me "Master", you can address me as "Master Mak" which is my lastname.


After reading your respond, I can tell you that I am just confused by your language because you are not typing in a normal "talking-English" here.  I must say that your post is in a gray zone which I know you did it on purpose.  If people think in your path, they can do so, if people think in another prespective, they can also do so.  That is your way of "flexible writing" which is meaningless to respond to.  You are not talking with facts.  I am sorry, I am not going to respond to you unless I can fully understand what you are saying in the post. One main reason is I don't want to mislead people, second is that I cannot even communicate with you in "normal English".  When I look at your post, I don't  get what you are trying to say.  Therefore, there is nothing for me to respond to.


My points and facts are clear and straight forward. I am open to discussions or debates, but only if you are talking in the same language that we can both understand.  If not, let's just drop the conversation then. Again, I am putting out facts and points in a very straight forward way, there are no gray zones for people to guess or self-interpret. If you want to chat, then I am only chatting in a "normal talking-English" way.


By the way, what is "with balance in spirit"?  That make no sense in the language of English at all.  Spirit is not an object and it cannot be balance. Your spirit can be busted, shattered, exorcise, cleanse, concentrate, or even vanish, but no balance. It's not a physical thing.  Please, speak with proper English so I can understand what you are trying to say. Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I just cannot get a tiny bit of what you typed.  Please forgive me for my rudeness here but I just cannot stand that last "balance in spirit" thing.


 


Mak Ching Yuen

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 09, 2011 - 12:18PM
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 8:44AM #7
RevDorris
Posts: 1,815

The Tao is -- so just be.


To label a path as good or bad is not Tao.


Just be who you are and allow others to do the same.

With love,

Rev Dorris
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 9:05AM #8
Mak Tin Si
Posts: 74

Apr 8, 2011 -- 8:44AM, RevDorris wrote:


The Tao is -- so just be.


To label a path as good or bad is not Tao.


Just be who you are and allow others to do the same.




To: Rev Dorris


You do not know what you are talking about because what you have just said is not even anything a person can understand.  The word "Tao" is a Chinese character which means "speaking" as in 道說, 道出.  The religion of Taoism, in Chinese is Dao Jiao or Do-Gaau in Cantonese. 道教.  Even the word "Tao" is used, it means the religion is a religion that teach with "speaking" only.  You of course won't know because you are not even in the system of Taoism. 


Talk only with what you know and you will avoid the chance of putting on a comedy show in front of the professionals. Very entertaining to see a Jesus lover hanging out at some Taoism sections doing graffities, have fun drawing pictures of your holy cross, but I ain't going to give you a thumbs up for just flipping out meaningless quotes from the western wrong translation of Tao Te Ching. Get yourself educated in the language and you will know the truth of what I say you are not knowing a thing about Taoism.


Of course, I welcome you to visit our page of "Tao Te Ching - Truth Reveal" to see the truth yourself. I already put it together for you.  I am not a Jesus believer and I don't believe in Jesus and so let's not talk about love here as we are not on the same page.  I only love the one beside me, not you. You better go back to your section and talk about the bible that you know only.  Taoism is not what you know and so don't try to jam in to show your wisdom, it's not what you are good at and you have just made Jesus mad again.


Mak Ching Yuen

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 09, 2011 - 12:46PM
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 9:31AM #9
ToltecLogic
Posts: 178

Master Mak, So good of you to respond. Two


of my good friends who have written and


taught in unconvential ways use to sign


there correspondence very similar to this.


Whereas Sun Bear (pretty much a product


of the New Age) might simply say in his


salutations, 'Walk In Balance', Dan Millman


always signed his communications


with the words 'In Spirit". I regret that


our cultural differences threaten to prevent


any further communications, its just that I


tend not to give into this whole social net


work of personal personifications but rather


harken back to an earlier more traditional


form of english usage.


thanks,


tl

Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 9:36AM #10
RevDorris
Posts: 1,815

According to Man-jan Cheng as translated from the Chinese by Tam C. Gibbs -- there are three kinds of Tao........ but simply put Tao is a path, a way of thinking.


It seems that more than 1400 people have offered interpretations of what Lao-Tze wrote. Now you claim that yours is the only correct way or interpretation.  That is the mark of a cult leader not a teacher.

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 09, 2011 - 12:44PM
With love,

Rev Dorris
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