| 2 years ago :: Jan 06, 2011 - 6:04PM #1 | |
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where can I find an OBJECTIVE, SCRIPTURAL study of the Rapture and The Second Coming--online, a book, etc. I want to compare the scriptural proofs of a PRE, MIDDLE or POST Rapture in a fair way to make up my own mind. Wikipedia has a good article on "Rapture" but it does not give the scriptural proofs. And I don't want to get someone's opinion--I want to see it all laid out and make up my own mind. any ideas?
Raven |
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| 2 years ago :: Jan 06, 2011 - 11:51PM #2 | |
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There are many books written about the Second Coming of Christ. Usually they begin with an agenda either about when a 'Rapture ' will take place or whether there is in fact going to be a 'Rapture' Remember that the word itself does not appear in Scripture and so that makes it difficult to be objective. One old book which uses the Scriptures well is called: A New heaven and a New Earth -- an introductory study of the Second Advent by Archibald Hughes put out by Marshall Morgan and Scott. It is now out of print but you may find it at Amazon.Com. The passage often referred to with regard to the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. One commentary states : The picture Paul draws of the day when Christ will come is poetry, an attempt to describe what is indescribable. At the Second Coming Christ will descend from heaven to earth. He will utter the word of command and thereupon the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God will waken the dead, then the dead and the living alike will be caught up in the chariots of the clouds to meet Christ; and thereafter they will be forever with their Lord. We are not meant to take with crude and insensitive literalism what is a seer's vision. It is not the details which are important. What is important is that in life and in death the Christian is in Christ and that is a union which nothing can break. Others see that this is to be taken literally and so the idea of 'caught up' leads to 'Rapture' belief. My take, for what it is worth, is that those alive at Christ's first coming misunderstood the Scripture references so badly they failed to accept Christ. This warns me to be very careful about the details of His Second Coming in case, like them, I miss the point. |
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| 2 years ago :: Feb 22, 2011 - 9:41PM #3 | |
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Here's my "cut + paste" assembly of Scripture dealing with the Second Coming...with annotations and comments...for what it is worth ! The SECOND COMING...Let the Spirit interpret the words of Jesus of Zazareth, the Christ, the Messaih, the God-Man. Matthew 24 Jesus... Signs: End of the Church Age ...the TRIBULATION and GREAT TRIBULATION...4-28 (NASB) 3...(Disciples:)...what will be the sign(s) of your (SECOND) coming and of the end of the (CHURCH) age?" 4Jesus answered: (First 3.5 years of TRIBULATION?...rise of the ANTI-CHRIST + REBUILD TEMPLE = his appearance in TEMPLE 15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' The SECOND Coming of the Lord 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 (NIV) 2 Thessalonians 1:7 When and How will Jesus RETURN (the Second Coming) ? Acts 1: 6-11...(The "Ascension") Where? Zechariah 14:4 The Great Commission...Jesus' Last Words on Earth When? 1 Thessalonians 5 Matthew 24: The Day and Hour Unknown Revelation 22: Jesus IS Coming AGAIN!
There Are certain things that apparently have to happen, or come about, before the next factor in prophecy One: Israel had to become a nation again, which it did in 1948. Two: The focus will be on Israel and the Middle East, and the focus is upon oil. Three: There must arise a one-world, and subversive, government led by a megalomaniac dictator. Four: This government will align itself with a religious order in an unholy partnership, Five: This world government will have a computerized tracking system for every person on the planet. Six:This dictator will also make a pact with Israel of non-interference in it's affairs, Seven: A coalition of nations lead by Russia, will come up and attack Israel. Armageddom, where man will wipe himself out with nuclear war technology, precipitates the return of Christ. |
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| 2 years ago :: Feb 22, 2011 - 11:48PM #4 | |
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I am persuaded, after living the past 35 years as a Christian, that God is longsuffereing toward mankind, and is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance… therefore I am somewhat disgruntled towards Christians focused upon the last days and the coming of the Lord. And believe me – I was one’em for decades. If Jesus were to come for His Church today – how many of you have loved ones who are not saved and would likely face a horrible fate during the great tribulation? Is that what you want for them? Do you think that is what God wants for them? Remember, the Bible says that “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life.” The question I have for you is – do you care for the lost? Or are you so concerned with missing the Rapture, that you don’t care about your fellow man? My Bible says that we are to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to everyone. Is that what you are doing, or are you boning up on the Rapture of the Church and all the various positions prophecy buffs spend their time debating? Let me assure you of this one thing – God loves you. And if God loves you, and you love God, then you have no reason to fear that Jesus will come for His Church and leave you behind. How can I be so sure? Because Scripture says that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” So the reality is – weather you die tomorrow, or are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord – you belong to Him. Thus it does not matter if the Rapture happens tomorrow, or the day after you die, in the middle of the Tribulation, or at the end of days when 2/3s of humanity lay dead or dying because of the plagues. If you belong to God, having been redeemed by the blood of Jesus – you will wake up in His presence. So honestly folks – there is lots of good stuff in the Bible you need to know better and more than when the Rapture happens. You need to know how to love God and your fellow man, you need to know how to give a good testimony, how a soft answer turns away wrath, and how to keep yourselves unspotted from the world. The Christians of the ancient Church wrote one line in their Creed about the coming of the Lord – one line. That He is coming again to judge the living and the dead – and frankly beyond that – no man knows the day or the hour and no one who thinks he does knows what they are talking about. So seek the Lord while He may be found – don’t waste your time boning up on prophecies about Israel and the last days, the antichrist and when he will be revealed – make the Lord Jesus the focus of your life and let God worry about when to send the Lord Jesus back for you. ~ Theophilus |
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| 2 years ago :: Feb 23, 2011 - 12:56AM #5 | |
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Theo: Nice off point sermon....ron |
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| 2 years ago :: Feb 25, 2011 - 11:10AM #6 | |
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hi Raven, One of the best books that I've read regarding the second advent of the Christ, and unarguably the one with the most Scriptural reference, is The Sign by Van Kampen. God bless you. In Christ, Ted |
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| 2 years ago :: Mar 01, 2011 - 9:58PM #7 | |
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AMEN Theo!!! WELL said!!! All I can say is...Keep your eyes on Jesus and the rest will fall into place!!!
† And The Anchor Holds † |
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| 2 years ago :: Mar 04, 2011 - 7:05PM #8 | |
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Yeah, that long, detailed post looks impressive but like you, especially this late in the day, I'm not that much into details. Might read it some morning. One question, aren't those 24 elders beheaded to get there rather than raptured? Please forgive me, folks, for being too tired tonight to look up the chapter right now and find out for sure. I've always felt the Second Coming would be after the Trib, and that the years may not be literal, as Daniel's 70 wks weren't, and have heard that the word Rapture isn't actually in the Bible, that saving us from the Wrath to Come means God's wrath, not the Beast's. Editing to add that, top of Rev. 12 really sounds like we have to be here to defeat the accuser, risking our lives, like the early martyrs. Does it make sense that any new converts could handle that job?
Eagle
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| 2 years ago :: Mar 05, 2011 - 10:39AM #9 | |
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Raven: Try Revelation and the End of All Things by Craig Koester (Augburg Fortress Press...available via Amazon.) It's a book written for laypeople by a NT scholar, and helps lay out the best contemporary understandings of the Book of Revelation in a way anyone can understand. |
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| 2 years ago :: Mar 08, 2011 - 7:16PM #10 | |
The rapture theory teaches that Christ will take away all the believers, let the world go through literal hell for seven years, and then return in Glory. Traditional Christianity believed that Christ would return in Glory, that there was no "secret return" seven years earlier. For the majority of Christian history, in fact, premillennialism was considered a heresy. The majority of all Christians who have ever lived believed in amillennialism. www.the-highway.com/amilTOC_Engelsma.htm... Did you know that MArtin Luther, John Calvinm Thomas Cramner, and John Wesley none believed in premillennialism or a rapture? |
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