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Switch to Forum Live View One difference between what are called philosophical daoism and religious daoism
7 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 12:19PM #1
Posts: 578

The hallmark of the so-called philosophical daoism (Laozi, Zhuangzi, Huainanzi, Guanzi, Leizi) is non-contingeny: liberation (jie) from a dependency on events to emotionally enhance or disturb one's heart. 

Whereas the interest of religous daoism (e.g. The Outer Radiance Scripture of the Yellow Court, Three Ways to Go Beyond the Heavenly Pass, etc.) is avoiding so-called "evil," and especially overcoming death.

In philosophical daoism there is no evil.  There are no outcomes that ruin the emotional well-being of the adept.  The apparent fact that she/he will die is not of great consequence.  Maintaining a deep sense of well-being (le ) is not dependent on anything that happens. is mystically realized, not through faith in a theological reality.




It’s the one who has the ability to get it from within herself, whether she is under a big tree or in an empty cave, who gets satisfaction from whatever happens. If she can’t get it out of herself, even if she possesses an empire and everyone is her subject, it won’t be enough for consummate growth. If a person can get to a point where there is nothing (in particular) that she enjoys, then there will be nothing that she does not enjoy. This is to arrive at optimum enjoyment.

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7 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2011 - 8:58AM #2
Posts: 178


Yes truth in practice or more particularly truth in both

stillness and action is much differnet than having

faith in religious dogma. Isn't it said in sacred text

that there are two distinct forms of Taoist under-

standing. There is that of the mundane world and

then there is that of the awakened mind. The

trouble then becomes a matter of finding an

authentic teacher, much easier said than done

in todays anything goes spiritual mass market

with a new teaching or teacher on every corner.

I would suggest the problem is far deeper than

a simple matter of philosophical differences vs

open awareness , but one of method or science

of actual alchemical practice in the application

of triplex unity.

"Although the words are very clear, yet they are also very
vague. The shallow may take the I Ching to be a book of
divination, but the profound consider it the secret of the
celestial mechanism."

"Sages are sages simply because of the application of the
principles of the I Ching. Application of the I Ching is
accomplished simply by openness and tranguility. When open,
one takes in all; when tranquil, one perceives all. When
open, one can accept things, when tranquil, one can respond
to situations. If openness and tranquilitty are continued
for a long time, one becomes spiritually illumined."

Lu Tung-pin


"The Tao of spiritual alchemy is none other than the Tao
of the I Ching, the Tao of sages is none other than the Tao
of immortals, and that the I Ching is not a book of devina-
tion but rather is the study of investigation of
principles, fulfillment of nature, and arriving at the
meaning of life."

Liu I-ming


"When one attains what is properly nurtured in both action
and stillness, one can thereby seek fulfillment by
oneself... not relying on others."
I Ching

There are no short cuts where harmony exist.
Building life apart from the conditioned mind
this discriminatory consciusness exist
only in temporal continuity which can not last.
Unaware of the unity underlying diversity
aberrant energy persist.
Physical, psychophysical or mental practice
conserve and circulate energy
taking over evolution
the four signs
strength, flexibility, awareness, and love combine.
This primal unconditioned awareness
the process of internal unification
assembled under the force of will
the five elements are assembled
truthfulness and sincerity harmonize
benevolence, justice, courtesy and wisdom.
Without triplex unity aberranted schools
become fixated on ritualistic forms or
become lost in the void of quitism.
Extraordinary fixations distract from
genuine intent whereby yin and yang
are combined deep within the dragon's abyss.

"When the fundamental is established, the path develops.
Once you recover your potential it is like it was always

I Ching

Stillness is the substance of joy
joy is the function of stillness
sensitivity is the path of
harmonizing yin and yang
producing joy by stillness

"The true energy in people is like the master, acquired energy
is like the servant; getting entanglled in yin and
thus damaging the real with the artificial is feeding the
servant and losing the master…"

I Ching


But then what this all boils down to is a simple matter

of reliable interputation of dependable translations.




Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2011 - 12:38PM #3
Posts: 178


Perhaps this is as good a place as any to attempt a general

discussion of what it means to walk the Way and its practice.

If there is a way and a path to the Way what is the path?

Awakenings happen all the time, there is really nothing

all that special about that but it is in how we are able to

process the experience into our daily existance that makes

all the difference. And I agree that it is much less difficult

than so many disciplines might make it out to be. However

it has been said that when it comes to the Tao of 'true

eternity' there are few who are interested. According to

The Northern School of Complete Reality, actual practice

begins at the point of awakening.

Whereas great thinkers, poets and mystics alike have given fair caution as in the words of Carl Jung. "When a summit of life is reached, when the bud unfolds and from the lesser the greater emerges, then, as Nietzsche says, 'One becomes Two,' and the greater figure, which one always was but which remained invisible, appears to the lesser personality with the force of a revelation.
He who is turly and hopelessly little will always drag the revelation of the greater down to the level of his littleness, and will never understand that the day of judgement for his littleness has dawned. But the man who is inwardly great will know that the long expected friend of his soul, the immortal one, has now really come... a moment of deadliest peril!" Or as Gibran might say, 

"Wisdom stands on the street corner and calls to us above the multitude, but we deem her a thing without worth and despise them that follow her."

Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2011 - 12:42PM #4
Posts: 178


If then "the quality of enlightenment is the spiritual nature

of innate knowledge and innate capacity... just as the sun sets

and also rises, in the same way people can obscure their good

qualities and also illumine them." And if "to illumine means to

make manifest..." then "This nature is originally truly open, 

subtaly existing, radiantly bright, without obscurity;" however

"once it is mixed with acquired temperment, it goes from clarity

to obscurity and loses its basic nature." Perhaps then this is

all a matter of the function of awareness, "using openness to

seek fulfillment... Depending on whether awareness is

internal or external, there is a difference between disparity 

and nondisparity, between unity and disunity...

When awareness is applied within, its light has returned

to the root; the artificial changes into the real, the

temperment disolves and the true nature appears." 


But of course we could beat this dead horse until the cows

come home... "Inasmuch as the way of life is perforce difficult,

the way of death is not easy either... When one undesrstands

truth in the mind and puts it into actual practice, the mind dies

and the spirit comes to life; gradually cultivating this without

seeking immediate results is like postponing execution... If one

does not postpone death but rather hastens death, hoping

for quick accomplishments, one may become a nihilistic quietist...

Only when this is perfectly clear in one's mind will one avoid

the mistake of taking the spurious for the genuine."

As it is said, "people who have false ideas about attainment

of the Tao, who are unable to first thoroughly examine its

principles, but take up practice recklessly and get sidetracked

in auxiliary methods, either clinging to emptiness or sticking to

form, wishing to seek long life but instead hastening death,

are like criminals in the times of the ancient kings. They are

chewing on nothing..."


Excerpts from:

The Taoist I Ching


Perhaps what this all boils down to is the nature of change

and how it manifest.

Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 11:38AM #5
Posts: 178

The truth is this allegorical death of the human mentality

must happen first before the Taoist I Ching is likely to

make much sense. Learning to die before you die? Doing

not doing? Or that some believe and some half doubt it

while others laugh out loud, because if they didn't laugh

it wouldn't be the Tao. But for those of us who have

had the apparent temporal continuity of our mundane

existence repeatedly shattered on not one but numerous

occasions, who early on in life have sought the answers

to life's most persitent questions of who we are and why

we are here. Occasionally there is an opening where the

past does fall into perfect perspective and as Jung says,

it can be 'a moment of deadlist peril' or as Gibran might

say, "And when a man hears the call of his heart and the

cry of his spirit, we say that such a one is possessed of

 a madness and we cleans ourselves of him." It is at

times such as these that rare books such as the

Taoist I Ching come in most handy, unfortunately

such pivotal events are much to easily swept under

the rug or swept up into the nearest cult or religion

all to eager to lay claim to the ineffable, while only

the very few survive the event untranished by

dogma or persecusion.


Another take on the human mentality, although it

is said to be the chief of villians it also the chief of

merit. The secret of the Taosit I Ching is that it

teachs us through gradual progress to go in and

out of yin and yang without being a slave to the

conditioned self.  As it is said, "When the mind is

empty, the human mentality is absent and true yin

appears; when the belly is full, the mind of Tao

emerges and true yang arises. With true yin

following true yang, true yang governing true yin

true yin and true yang conjoin, and in ecstasy

there is form, intrance there is vitality, crystallizing

into a tiny pearl: Swallow this, and it will extend

life infinitely."


Taoist I Ching


But here again we get into speculation of interputation

and expectations of uncertain meanings.


Harmonious joyful praxis

using vitality to nurture

the spirit within...



Restoration of the celestial
within the temporal is the return
of basic nature to natural innocence
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