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Switch to Forum Live View Are We Truly a Christian Nation?
4 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2010 - 11:55AM #1
Doneau
Posts: 29

I respect the right of each individual to practice the religion or faith of their own calling.  We are all not the same.  We live in a nation that began with the fleeing of spiritual people from the stifling state-mandated religion of Great Britain.  Yet, it seems that we quickly became a nation guilty of trying to impose the exact same circumstances upon on our citizens. 


Over and over we hear politician and citizen alike state that the United States was founded on Christian principles; the Founding Fathers were Christians.  However, part of our earliest historical records definitevly prove this to be false. 


For instance, Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli (unanimously passed by the senate and signed into law in 1797 by then President John Adams) clearly states, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." In reality, a number of the founding Fathers were Deists, even though whether they identified as Diests or Christians has little bearing on the establishment of the nation - remember, the whole purpose of coming to America was to escape a state-sanctioned religion.  One would be hard pressed to believe that a people would escape such a situation only to self impose it again when they arrived in the New World.


Christianity may indeed be the prevailing religion in the United States, but it is not the ONLY religion.  Judaism, practiced by our Jewish citizens, is NOT Christianity, yet both religions share common scripture - The Old Testament.  Muslims share many of the same tenets and stories in the Qur'an (Koran) that are found in the Christian Bible.  These two holy texts are more alike than they are dissimilar.  Being the majority doesn't necessarily make their beliefs a fact.  There was a time that the majority of people believed that the earth was flat and that the sun and planets revolved around the earth.


It saddens me to think that many of our citizens exclude, dismiss, and write-off anyone who does not identify as Christian.  It also frustrates me to think that these same people will cast a vote more readily for someone who identifies as Christian than not.  Have we devolved back to a nation similar to the one we broke from during our own fight for independence?


Christianity pervades the United States, but the country itself has no particular religious persuasion.  This is not, nor has it ever been a "Christian Nation."  The government as a nation amended the Consitution preventing such a designation and/or affiliation.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." First Amendment, United States Consitution.

Maybe the whole idea of the U.S. not being a Christian nation is too much for the populace to fathom.  Maybe the thought is just too horrid, too upsetting, too totally unthinkable that some people continue to go on as if the Treaty of Tripoli and the First Amendment just don't exist.  Or maybe, we as a nation are too arrogant and self-righteous to believe that our citizens have it within themselves to be a thoughful, sincere, responsible, compassionate people regardless of religious affiliation.  In any event, facts are facts.  We can continue to delude ourselves, secure in our ignorance and arrogance, or we can acknowledge that God made makind as diverse as the stars in the universe and try to live peaceably with one another no matter what religious persuasion we may happen to be.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2010 - 4:36PM #2
amcolph
Posts: 18,287

We are a secular republic which happens to be largely populated by Christians--a very different thing from a Christian nation.


And if you look closely at those who are proposing that we are or should be a Christian nation, you will find that what they really want is an Evangelical Protestant nation, with all other Christians--as well as people of other faiths and atheists--reduced to second-class status.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2010 - 12:37PM #3
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,333

Of COURSE America is not a "Christian" nation.


 


He11, even the "Christians" don't act like Christians anymore.


 


I agree with the above poster regarding 2nd-class citizenship for all other than the fundagelicals.


 


'We want our country back.' - Yep, back in the 1950s, that is.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2010 - 12:35PM #4
Jesusismypersonallordandsavior
Posts: 10

Not anymore we're not, the founding fathers were Christian except Paine and Jefferson. The Secular revisionist wants to change the past to affect the future of moral decline in the U.S.A.. No, we are not a Christian Nation anymore we're a Nation in decline of morals and Ethics. That makes me sad, I wish we we're a Judeo-Christian Nation like we once were but oh well.!!!

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2010 - 1:50PM #5
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Jul 19, 2010 -- 12:35PM, Jesusismypersonallordandsavior wrote:


Not anymore we're not, the founding fathers were Christian except Paine and Jefferson. The Secular revisionist wants to change the past to affect the future of moral decline in the U.S.A.. No, we are not a Christian Nation anymore we're a Nation in decline of morals and Ethics. That makes me sad, I wish we we're a Judeo-Christian Nation like we once were but oh well.!!!





Since when did the U.S. want to be Jewish?

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2010 - 9:16PM #6
DGMelby
Posts: 970

Jul 19, 2010 -- 1:50PM, Bezant wrote:


Since when did the U.S. want to be Jewish?




You've got to understand their codewords:


"Judeo-Christian" - The Jews have to have a nation in the Middle East, a.k.a. Israel, because our interpretation of Scripture requires a war in the Middle East against Israel so Christ will come again and bring us all bodily up to Heaven while the non-Christians (including Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc...) are tortured on Earth.


It's sort of like how when they say Christian, what they really mean is fundamentalist, evangelical Protestants.  And when they talk of morals, they're not really talking about not killing or harming others, but the persecution of homosexuals and non-Christians.  And when they mention ethics, they don't mean caring for the poor and the sick, but their so called "Gospel of Prosperity:" rich people are rich because they have God's favor, and they shouldn't be taxed because of it."

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2010 - 3:16PM #7
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Jul 19, 2010 -- 9:16PM, DGMelby wrote:


Jul 19, 2010 -- 1:50PM, Bezant wrote:


Since when did the U.S. want to be Jewish?




You've got to understand their codewords:


"Judeo-Christian" - The Jews have to have a nation in the Middle East, a.k.a. Israel, because our interpretation of Scripture requires a war in the Middle East against Israel so Christ will come again and bring us all bodily up to Heaven while the non-Christians (including Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc...) are tortured on Earth.


It's sort of like how when they say Christian, what they really mean is fundamentalist, evangelical Protestants.  And when they talk of morals, they're not really talking about not killing or harming others, but the persecution of homosexuals and non-Christians.  And when they mention ethics, they don't mean caring for the poor and the sick, but their so called "Gospel of Prosperity:" rich people are rich because they have God's favor, and they shouldn't be taxed because of it."




Potentially.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2010 - 9:47AM #8
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

I'm still trying to figure out what a "Christian Nation" would even look like. I mean I know what the Rushdoony-ites want it to look like, but their political agenda looks nothing like what I read in the Gospels.


-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2010 - 8:37AM #9
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Jul 29, 2010 -- 9:47AM, Xristocharis wrote:


I'm still trying to figure out what a "Christian Nation" would even look like. I mean I know what the Rushdoony-ites want it to look like, but their political agenda looks nothing like what I read in the Gospels.


-Jon





Well, if we compare it to the one still solidly Christian Nation in the world , the Vatican, I would have to say we are nothing like that.  Most Western countries are heavily influenced by Christianity, and some even have a state church, but none have leadership like the Vatican, or policies like the Vatican.  I honesty believe that the Vatican is the one Christian Nation left. And I think it says something that everyone else has secularized, many considerably early in their nation's history.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2010 - 10:13AM #10
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

Jul 30, 2010 -- 8:37AM, Sacrificialgoddess wrote:


Jul 29, 2010 -- 9:47AM, Xristocharis wrote:


I'm still trying to figure out what a "Christian Nation" would even look like. I mean I know what the Rushdoony-ites want it to look like, but their political agenda looks nothing like what I read in the Gospels.


-Jon





Well, if we compare it to the one still solidly Christian Nation in the world , the Vatican, I would have to say we are nothing like that.  Most Western countries are heavily influenced by Christianity, and some even have a state church, but none have leadership like the Vatican, or policies like the Vatican.  I honesty believe that the Vatican is the one Christian Nation left. And I think it says something that everyone else has secularized, many considerably early in their nation's history.





I remember reading a while back about how when the popes wore the papal tiara (symbolizing their temporal and civil authority over the Papal States -> Vatican City) they would remove it when entering into a church for Mass. The Pope, as temporal monarch of the Papal States/Vatican City laid down that authority in a place which represented the kingdom and reign of God.


Something tells me that this isn't what America--as Christian Nation--would look like if the Theocrats and Dominionists got their way. Hardline Dominionists, in fact, are Postmillennialists, specifically of the kind that believe it is the Christian's duty (as well as that of the Church as a whole) to subdue and dominate the secular and political realm. The kingdom of God will only come once the Church has subjected the whole world to the "Christian" mission (use of quotes intentional). A kind of Caesaropapism of the ugliest sort.


-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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