I'm currently studying a school of Hinduism called Advaita Vedanta, which is generally considered to be pantheistic. It's hard to explain it briefly, but the basic idea is that Brahman (God) is the ultimate Reality, and It is unchanging, transcendent, and the Divine Ground and Essence of all that exists. All is Brahman, and there is nothing besides Brahman. All of the manifested Universe, including the Goddesses and Gods, are considered manifestations of Brahman in form, since Brahman is ultimately formless.
I'm wondering if this would be considered a pagan spiritual path by the other pagans here? I don't call myself a Hindu or an Advaitin, but it is the spiritual philosophy that is influencing my spiritual path the most right now. But I'm a big fan of nature-worship and Earth-based spirituality in general. The only thing that concerns me about Earth-centered religion is that I believe the whole Universe is Divine, not just the Earth, so I hesitate to call myself an Earth-worshiper. For me, Nature encompasses more than just the Earth. I consider Nature, the Universe, God, and Brahman as different names for the same thing, but the Earth is just a small part of it.
I don't consider myself a witch, and I don't know if that is required to be pagan. But I don't have anything against witchcraft.. I just don't know much about it, and I have never been able to try it because I still live with my Christian family.
So am I pagan? I'd like to hear what you guys consider to be pagan, and if pantheistic approaches to Hinduism are considered pagan even without the practice of witchcraft.
Well as the Host Pagan who checks in most days in this very quiet forum, I will offer my perspective. Hopefully that will be helpful.
I consider Paganism to be a modern (20th century) Movement to which people self-identify, self-define what that means to him or her and seeks validation through first hand experience or UPG (Unverifiable Personal Gnosis). The term Pagan is used as an alternate name for already named religions/traditions (i.e. Wicca/Pagan Witchcraft), for autonomous groups who have defined their paganism by consensus and individuals as his/her unique religion. I have yet to see it defined sufficiently or widely enough in a singular fashion to consider Paganism itself to be ‘a’ religion.
So the answer to your question is that it will depend on the individual self-defining Pagan that you ask.
In my case, I would say that you might be considered on a pagan path if you used the still valid (in some contexts but not all) definition of paganism as anything that is not Abrahamic.
However, as part of the modern Paganism Movement….Hinduism is perhaps the world’s oldest continual religion, certainly the oldest with recorded sacred texts that I am aware of. Since the broad spectum of Hinduism began thousands of years ago and as it is celebrated by millions who are not part of the Western’s Paganism Movement...I wouldn't consider this faith in itself to be part of that modern Movement.
A couple of clarifications that might be helpful. While the concept that nature is not irrelevant to one’s spirituality is important throughout much of the spectrum that makes up the Paganism Movement, how being earth-based is interpreted can vary considerably. This may range from those that personify the Earth as a deity to worship to those that simply strive to live in harmony or heal the damages that mankind had done. However I don’t think I’ve ever met a Pagan that only considered the Earth to be Divine or that Nature only encompassed the Earth. The Universe is pretty much a given as being Divine. I’ve been a Pagan (Witch) for almost thirty years so I would say, there might be a handful of Pagans out there that do so but like me, you might never meet one.
No, being a Witch is not a requirement for being Pagan. Witches only comprise part of the broad spectrum of what is known as modern Paganism. The modern re-definition of witchcraft (the Craft) is only a requirement to being Wiccan or to being a Pagan Witch of the many non-Wiccan Traditions that have evolved since the 1930’s. There are also numerous other definitions of witchcraft, indigenous, fictional and historical, all outside of the Paganism Movement but qualifying as non-Abrahamic in most cases.
Is it important to you to be considered being on a Pagan spiritual path? Or are you simply looking for like-minds or perhaps a community to belong to? If so, diversity is usually welcomed amongst self-identified Pagans, many of whom borrow (respectfully or sometimes otherwise) from other faiths as they self-define their own.
The bottom line though is that only you can decide if you self-define as a Pagan and why.
C.H.Community HostPaganism Boards
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
Is it important to you to be considered being on a Pagan spiritual path? Or are you simply looking for like-minds or perhaps a community to belong to? If so, diversity is usually welcomed amongst self-identified Pagans, many of whom borrow (respectfully or sometimes otherwise) from other faiths as they self-define their own.
The bottom line though is that only you can decide if you self-define as a Pagan and why.
C.H.Community HostPaganism Boards
Hi C.H.! Thank you for your response.
I wasn't aware that many Pagans considered Paganism to be primarily a modern movement. Don't many Wiccans consider their religion as a revival of pagan religion that existed in Great Britain before it was Christianized? To me, most forms of modern Paganism seem like modern variations of ancient religious practices.
No, it isn't super-important to me to be considered being on a "Pagan" spiritual path, but the reverence/worship of Nature is very important to me, and this is what attracts me to Paganism and certain forms of Hinduism. It would be nice to have a particular spiritual path... right now I don't even know what to call myself. I'm not Hindu, Pagan, Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic, and calling myself a pantheist doesn't really say much because pantheism encompasses a wide range of beliefs and paths. There are no Vedanta centers or Pagan groups near me that I know of. I've been going to a Center for Spiritual Living occasionally, which is a New Thought spiritual community near me, but it isn't as Nature-centered as what I'm looking for.
If I were to become a Pagan, I'm sure I would borrow a lot from Hinduism, Vedanta, and Theosophy because these spiritual philosophies have already influenced my spiritual path, especially Theosophy. I'm a member of the Theosophical Society in America, and I've been studying Theosophy for about two years. The basic tenets of Theosophy are listed here: www.theosophical.org/about/about_theo.ph...
Many Theosophists self-identify as Pagan, Hindu, or Buddhist, and even some are esoteric Christians.
I don't know if I'll ever want to identify as Hindu because it is so attached to Indian culture. When a white person says they're Hindu, it seems strange to everyone, including other Hindus. I kind of get the feeling that most Indian Hindus wouldn't accept non-Indian Hindus, because their religion is so embedded in their culture. If there were a Vedantic religion that was universal and not specific to Indian culture, and not called "Hindu", then that would be for me. Well, come to think of it, that's pretty much what Theosophy is, except it isn't a religion and there are no religions ceremonies or practices associated with Theosophy. It's just a spiritual philosophy. Some forms of Neo-paganism might be the closest thing to the kind of religious path I'm looking for.
"I wasn't aware that many Pagans considered Paganism to be primarily a modern movement."
I can’t tell you how many other Pagans consider Paganism as a modern Movement. I certainly do and have met others that do so as well. Plus every time someone describes it as ‘a’ religion, a chorus of other Pagans tend to chime in that whatever is being described isn’t their religion of Paganism. Within that movement (for me) are numerous religions that are agreed upon by consensus so describing it as a movement simply works better.
"Don't many Wiccans consider their religion as a revival of pagan religion that existed in Great Britain before it was Christianized?"
When you delve into modern Paganism, including the Religion of Wicca, you encounter at first usually the inspiration or mythos (mythological) history of where it comes from. In the case of Wicca, Gardner claimed that he was reviving a secret religion of witchcraft that had previously existed, again unproven except by subjective testimony. Depending on whom you talk to, you will find Wiccans who do hold this to be a true history and it is important to them to do so. I am of that school that was it most important is what is done now in living one's faith, not how old it supposedly is. When one delves deeper IME, one discovers that there is also a documented history (logos) that only goes back to the 1920’s in Britain for Wicca. These two histories logos/mythos work together, need each other to exist and have different but aligned purposes. Confusing one for the other, that is where the difficulties start.
Today we tend to throw pagan around for anything ancient or non-Christian, both of these valid terms in some contexts. Sometimes however it is used to imply that what ‘we’ do now is the same as what ‘they’ did and hence made more valid. Yes, modern Paganism borrows from many recorded ancient practices and sometimes a few indigenous ones as well. IMO any practice that is known or speculated to have been practised in ancient times when taken out of historical context becomes something different and new. Just my take though on that.
I’ve posted this on Beliefnet in various forms and threads so hopefully you won’t mind me doing so again here. Sorry for the length.
This word pagan etymologically is said to derive from paganus (plural pagani), the Latin word for civilian or a citizen who wasn’t in the military (Roman Empire). Early Christians termed themselves soldiers of Christ and took to calling anyone non-Christian as pagani, regardless of their beliefs or faiths. As Christianity spread quickest in urban centres, the term pagani or pagan began to be used for mainly rural dwellers, earning a secondary meaning of one who lives in the countryside. Ramsay MacMullen in his "Christianity and Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries" describes what we historically label as paganism with the Roman Empire based on his research. Note please that while he refers to ‘this religion’, what he is essentially describing is a spectrum of religious characteristics that do not conform to how a shared and most especially a universalistic religion would be defined. "Apart from Judaism and, in due course, Christianity and Manichaeism, the essential characteristics of religion in the empire were…the acknowledgement of innumerable superhuman beings, the expectation that they might be benevolent and would respond kindly to prayer (all but those who might be bent to wicked uses by magical invocation), the belief that some one or few of these being presided especially over each place and people and a substratum of rites addressing life’s hopes and fears without appeal to any one being in particular. This religion had no single center, spokesman, director or definition of itself: therefore no one point of vulnerability. Everyone was free to choose his own credo: anyone who wished could consult a priest, or ignore a priest about how best to appeal to the divine." (pp 32) MacMullen goes on to describe how words, acts and arts were woven "into the deepest levels of daily life and culture, the secular included." People circulated everywhere in the Empire and as MacMullen put it, "Over the course of many hundreds of years of peaceful stirring about, the mix became constantly more complex and intimate, at least in urban settings. Variety itself became a characteristic binding together of the whole fabric of religion into one whole…"
There was what I call the first Paganism Movement at that time, an attempt to align Greek science with Christian theology that ultimately failed. Down through the next generations, Latin writers notably used pagan(i) as a term for anything that wasn’t Christian, ignoring the indigenous names, contexts and purposes in many cases. With roots in the 16th century by the early 19th century, a second Paganism emerged, an academic/literary rebellion against the hold of the Catholic Church. Jules Michelet for example wrote supposed histories that were the seed for many later myths in the mythos history of Paganism and Witchcraft (secret ancient pagan religion, witches as priestesses etc). By the time one reaches the 18th-19th centuries, there are four circulating definitions of paganism that influenced the (third) modern Paganism Movement. Greek and Roman cultures as great (but no Christian ethics) or having hedonistic faiths (they actually had civic faiths). The third definition comes from the Romantic Movement, that of a pastoral idealistic harmony between religion, man and nature that gave rise to the village witch mythos and the roots of earth-based orientation. And finally the occult/Christian definitions of pagans being evil barbarians worshipping idols. All of these had a hand in forming what today we call paganism and what gets labelled as being pagan.
Have you considered using the term Eclectic? This comes from an ancient Greek philosophical movement where each philosopher researched carefully and respectfully and brought back to his personal practice the best of what he found. It does to some people denote shallowness but being truly eclectic takes work, commitment and practice.
Thank you for the link. I am familiar with the tenant of Theosophy but it is good to be reminded again.
C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
I started out interested in Wicca, especially after reading The Spiral Dance in the late 70's. I studied with a couple different groups, one that I didn't care for and another that I liked. But finally after a few years of study and interest, I started a group of my own, which last nearly 20 years. Ours went from Wicca to pagan to pantheism. Sometimes a combination of pagan and pantheism. We thought of ourselves as a type of Faery tradition and used a lot of music, dance and musical themes with our meditations and circles. Little by little the group became more theatrical in that we acted out the changing seasons and various myths with music and dance. Some from the Mabinogi, and some from other books we read. For each of our major Sabbats we acted out the story that the holiday focused on. In between, we met and had smaller circles. Each member led a different circle, so that everyone had a chance. We had a Discordian Circle every year and they were lots of fun. We thought of the gods and goddesses as themes not reality. I opened a metaphysical book store about 8 years after I started the circle, and 13 years later it burned down in a block fire started by a jerk who worked in a restaurant and threw a cigarette butt in a pile of trash. Five stores burned to the ground. Heartbreaking. I don't do circles anymore. Got tired and older! Haven't for several years, but sometimes I do miss it. Now especially because we have to sell our home. This is a terrible experience. Anyway, if you want to see lots of pictures of us, and our themes, check Facebook under Tapestry.
studying a school of Hinduism called Advaita Vedanta What is the practical, experiential work involved?
pagan spiritual path Please take the Belief-O-Matic™ quiz. I find it long-winded and technical. So I recommend finding some quiet time, a cuppa and a dictionary!
nature-worship and Earth-based spirituality This afternoon I went hiking in a nature reserve. What experiential contact with nature do you practise?
the whole Universe is Divine I also have a planetary telescope. How do you admire the cosmos?
witch, and I don't know if that is required to be pagan The head of my Pagan group, calls my take on Paganism "eclectic".
I have never been able to try it because I still live with my Christian family Remove the obstacle!
Paganism to be primarily a modern movement I studied the Earth in such depth as to be awarded a Master's degree in it!
no Vedanta centers or Pagan groups near me Find a forest, a desert, a garden, a lake, a sea....
I've been studying Theosophy What practical (for example meditation) work have you been doing?
spiritual philosophy I am looking to find in your writing, some connection with nature!
