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Switch to Forum Live View Was Jesus literally born of a virgin human woman?
8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 2:26PM #1
holst
Posts: 245

This is what we profess all the time when we say certain creeds.  We literally say that Jesus was born of a human woman, with no reproductive components from any human male.


 


Since its Christmas, I got to thinking more about this.... and I am wondering if people take this story literally, or perhaps figuratively?  And does it matter.


 


Its not impossible for a virgin to become pregnant.  But as far as we know, a woman can't have a child grow inside her without some involvement of the biological material of a human male.


 


So was Jesus literally born of a virgin?  With no Earthly biological father?


Its pretty hard to believe.  But its our faith.


 


How do you interpret this story?

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 2:46PM #2
RJMcElwain
Posts: 3,013

Dec 23, 2009 -- 2:26PM, holst wrote:


..........................Its pretty hard to believe.  But its our faith.


 


How do you interpret this story?




You're right. It's part of our faith. It's also a standard part of Greek and Roman mythology. So it's reasonable that those two cultures would become a part of the Jesus story.


Personally, I think it's mythology. However, that doesn't change the message.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 2:52PM #3
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144

Holst:


Tell ya what --- beg, borrow or steal this book.


Better still, con a fundy friend into buying it for you for Christmas.Laughing


www.johnshelbyspong.com/store/Born_of_a_...

The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 3:13PM #4
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144

For a good, concise overview check out:


religioustolerance.org/virgin_b1.htm


Scroll down a bit and see the list of ancient big-wigs reputed to be born of virgins.

The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 3:26PM #5
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

My Question has always been  If you are God and supposlly  Created everything from nothing why would it be hard to believe in the Virgin birth or God coming to Earth as Jesus or every other thing?  i never understood the Fact that God the Creator could only do a few things while other events could not be possible. Personally i couldn't put God in a box it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 4:01PM #6
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065

Modern people ask "Did it happen?" but ancient people asked "What does it mean?"


The best way to approach Scripture is to put aside "Did it happen?" and focus on "What does it mean?"

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 4:24PM #7
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144

Dec 23, 2009 -- 3:26PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:


I dunno, Jupe.  Too many speculation lined up in a row --- like rosary beads.


My Question has always been  If you are God and supposlly  Created everything from nothing


Creation ex nihilo is a speculation.  Maybe matter-energy is eternal; a number of Greek philosophers thought so.  If we can say "God is eternal", we can equally make the same claim for matter-energy.  No beginning; no end; just simply "IS".


The theological term for this is "aseity" ---   "quintessential beingness".  If God has it, why not matter-energy?


why would it be hard to believe in the Virgin birth or God coming to Earth as Jesus or every other thing? 


"God can do" is not synonymous with "God did do".  Besides, who the hell really knows what God can or cannot do?  What God did do is also a catena of speculations.


 i never understood the Fact that God the Creator could only do a few things while other events could not be possible.


Actually, those who claim to know undoubtedly know these things least of all.


 Personally i couldn't put God in a box it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.




Rather than "put God in a Box", I prefer to "put the box in God".


Old Dutch is a PanENtheist.Wink


I agree with Dan.  To the ancient, symbolic significance trumps historicity.

The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 5:51PM #8
holst
Posts: 245

I am well aware that Jesus was far from the first dude to who people claimed was born of a virgin.  But does that mean that we toss out the Jesus' virgin birth story and assume they were just following a trend?


I really like the comment earlier about "What does it mean" vs. "did it happen" I tend to ask both questions.  But if we ask "did it happen?" all the time, then in light of modern science very little of what we regard as divine will have actually "happened".

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 9:01PM #9
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

This is controversial even by TEC standards.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2009 - 10:49PM #10
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

Dec 23, 2009 -- 4:24PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Dec 23, 2009 -- 3:26PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:


I dunno, Jupe.  Too many speculation lined up in a row --- like rosary beads.


My Question has always been  If you are God and supposlly  Created everything from nothing


Creation ex nihilo is a speculation.  Maybe matter-energy is eternal; a number of Greek philosophers thought so.  If we can say "God is eternal", we can equally make the same claim for matter-energy.  No beginning; no end; just simply "IS".


The theological term for this is "aseity" ---   "quintessential beingness".  If God has it, why not matter-energy?


why would it be hard to believe in the Virgin birth or God coming to Earth as Jesus or every other thing? 


"God can do" is not synonymous with "God did do".  Besides, who the hell really knows what God can or cannot do?  What God did do is also a catena of speculations.


 i never understood the Fact that God the Creator could only do a few things while other events could not be possible.


Actually, those who claim to know undoubtedly know these things least of all.


 Personally i couldn't put God in a box it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.




Rather than "put God in a Box", I prefer to "put the box in God".


Old Dutch is a PanENtheist.


I agree with Dan.  To the ancient, symbolic significance trumps historicity.




 


 


So where does the belief factor come in?  LOL  Was this all mearly just a story, fable?

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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