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5 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2009 - 6:18PM #1
Vistronic
Posts: 1,830

Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2009 - 6:35PM #2
amcolph
Posts: 16,276

Sep 4, 2009 -- 6:18PM, Vistronic wrote:


Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?


 


 




A King?  What's wrong with what we have now?  It is, as Churchill said, the worst kind of government except for all the others.


And, there is nothing about it which prevents us as individuals from adopting Christian values and electing representatives who do the same without changing anything about our Constitution.



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5 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 2:07PM #3
TPaine
Posts: 9,044

Sep 4, 2009 -- 6:18PM, Vistronic wrote:


Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?



It would be easy enough to find out. You could start be reading By What Standard? by R.J. Rushdoony. However, the United States Constitution established a secular nation that protected the rights of all religions to practice freely, but prohibited the government from establishing one in preference to all the others.


There have been examples of "Bible based Governments" in history, for example there was the Inquisition in Spain and Calvin's Geneva. We don't need a Theocracy in the United States. The Christian Bible cannot be proved to be the word of God, given the fact that over it's history scribes either intentionally or unintentionally miscopied, or added to or subtracted from, the text. (For instance, the story of the woman taken in adultery [John 7:53 - 8:12] was added by scribes after the writing of the book, as it cannot be found in the earliest, most accurate existing copies of John, plus, in some cases the story is found following John 21:25 and even following Luke 21:38) Additionally, the Bible is an anonymous book. We are fairly certain that Paul wrote seven of the thirteen epistles credited to him, but we also know the other books in the New Testament were not written by the authors the book itself credits as the author.


Further, there are contradictions and errors in the New Testament that would not exist were it the "Word" of an omniscient, omnipotent being. For instance, was Jesus born during the reign of Herod the Great who died in 4 BCE (Matthew) or during the census of Quirinius in 6 CE (Luke)? Which genealogy of Jesus was correct, Matthew's or Luke's since they are totally different?


Finally, the concept of a Christian government whether based on "Christian Values" or the Christian Bible would by its nature be discriminatory against believers of all other religions, or those who do not believe in any religion, who happen to be citizens of the United States. There is nothing inherent in the Christian religion that makes it superior to any other religion.


 


 



"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 5:10PM #4
DGMelby
Posts: 969

Sep 4, 2009 -- 6:18PM, Vistronic wrote:


Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?



I've been absent from these forums far too long.  Nice to see you're still around too, Vis.


Anyhow, if you're trying to align a "Christian Government" with the actual teachings of Christ, the phrase "oxymoron" come to mind.  The power, wealth, and violence of government is the very antithesis of humility, charity, and non-violence of Christ's teachings.


The closest we could get to a genuinely "christian" government based on Christ's teachings would be some form of socialism.


As for a "biblical" government... Christ rebelled against such a government, and was executed for it.  There's a reason why governments in general have moved away from bronze-age values.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 5:14PM #5
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

The present Constitutional Government is fine by me. As long as the laws are just and fair.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2009 - 5:15PM #6
dblad
Posts: 1,595

Sep 4, 2009 -- 6:18PM, Vistronic wrote:


Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?



 


Who gets to say what is Christian? Who's interpretation of scripture (Bible) would we use?


Some Christians commit a great deal of energy debating precisely which of the 1,000 or so North American faith groups are Christian and which are either sub-Christian, quasi-Christian, non-Christian or even anti-Chrisitan. There are probably hundreds of lists of valid Christian denominations in existence -- all different.


 What a mess we would have... rather like the different tribes in earlier times... or like those in Muslim countries today.


I'm content to keep what we have... improve it when we can...  being gay, I wouldn't last long in a religious based government, nor would many other people who don't fit the mold of especially the RR.


 


 


 


 



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5 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 7:48PM #7
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

The very notion of a Christian government not only goes against everything I believe in, but I find it highly offensive. Whatever a "Christian government" might be, I'd rather have no part of it whatsoever.


-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2009 - 8:01PM #8
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

 


Sep 4, 2009 -- 6:18PM, Vistronic wrote:


Hello I was on the origins thread and I was wondering what form would a Christian Government take? And would it be possible in our current USA system with a few tweaks. If not, What if we construct a new Christian Government what would it tenets be? I mean if we tried to align it with the teachings of Jesus not the so called "Christian values of the 21st century" but the teachings of Jesus.


Or if that does not work, what about the teachings of the enitre Bible? A Bible based Government? A King?




A few things a hypothetical "Christian government" would need (just for kicks and chortles):


It couldn't have a military. Period.


No capital punishment. Period.


The central emphasis would be taking care of the poor, the hungry, the sick, the disabled, widows, and orphans.


There might still be money in some form, but it would be regarded as largely worthless.


Disciplinary action wouldn't be punitive in nature, but would rather be about helping and reconciling people, restoring them with love, care and compassion. Mercy and forgiveness would be the rule.


If attacked, it would turn the other cheek. No war or retaliation. Period.


Power would be shunned in favor of service and serving people.


Of course, that already exists (or is supposed to), Jesus called it the kingdom of God. And He founded a community to live out that sort of life in this world, He called it His Church.


No government can be that, because governments by their very nature like power, control, and tend to retaliate when attacked.


-Jon


 

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2009 - 3:20AM #9
Vistronic
Posts: 1,830

Hello everyone very interesting replies,


It appears to me that the early Christians in the book of acts,


"shared all things in common"


As Melby said (Hi BTW) is this not a form of socialism? or dare I even mention Communism?


And if it is what is a person to make of the "right" decrying socialism?

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2009 - 10:26AM #10
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

nope, what one does in an individual community has no bearing on the make up of the society at large


 


you can live communally in Oneida, New York or the Amana colonies, Iowa and still participate in the free market economy


 


living communally in a religious community or even a Kibbutz in no way negates your participation in the free market economy


 


only if the early Christian community forced its ways on the greater Roman world would it have been socialism

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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