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Switch to Forum Live View Texas Gets Another Creationist School Board Leader
8 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 4:12PM #11
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Well, since I am not a Christian, my words hold no sway with those decent, God-fearin' folk.

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 4:54PM #12
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Good Post, HC, but Texas wants Barton to supervise the writing of Social Studies texts, not Science texts, and when it comes to history he is a known liar. He has been forced to admit on his Wallbuilders website that the following quotes that he listed in his book, The Myth of Separation, were either questionable or out and out false.


It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!
-- Patrick Henry (questionable)

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
-- George Washington (questionable)

Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian.
-- Holy Trinity v. U.S. [Supreme Court] (false)

We have staked the whole future of American civilization, nor upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves ... according to the Ten Commandments of God.
-- James Madison (false)

Whosoever shall introduce into the public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world.
-- Benjamin Franklin (questionable)

The principles of all genuine liberty, and of wise laws and administrations are to be drawn from the Bible and sustained by its authority. The man therefore who weakens or destroys the divine authority of that book may be assessory to all the public disorders which society is doomed to suffer.
-- Noah Webster (questionable)

There are two powers only which are sufficient to control men, and secure the rights of individuals and a peaceable administration; these are the combined force of religion and law, and the force or fear of the bayonet.
-- Noah Webster (questionable)

The only assurance of our nation's safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion.
-- Abe Lincoln (questionable)

The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.
-- Abe Lincoln (questionable)

A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or eternal invader.
-- Samuel Adams (questionable)
[this can be found in Harry Alonzo Cushing, ed., The Writings of Samuel Adams (1908), Vol. 4, p. 124 -- Cliff Walker, May 1, 2002]

I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make us better citizens.
-- Thomas Jefferson (questionable)

America is great because she is good. and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great.
-- Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America (definitely not in the book; perhaps in other more obscure writings; questionable)


www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.ht...


The false Madison quote can still be found on many Christian websites. Barton also stated on a video he produced that Jefferson his famous Wall of Separation message came from an 1801 speech, and that Jefferson added that the wall was only to act one way. It was to keep government out of religion but not religion out of government. Evidently he didn't realize that far too many people know that Jefferson mentioned the Wall in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists and never intended that the wall be one way.


Do we really want a known liar in charge of what goes into social studies textbooks studied by children, especially a liar that has no degree in history?

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 5:54PM #13
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Jul 17, 2009 -- 8:16PM, dblad wrote:


The correct URL on the David Barton article is contained in this quote... click on the colored text.


David Barton heads the fundamentalist organization Wallbuilders, and is opposed to the separation of church and state. In 1991, he twice attended and spoke at meetings of front groups for the white supremacist "Christian Identity" movement, then claimed he was unaware he was speaking to neo-Nazis.





It's obvious that Barton's claim that he didn't know Peters had Christian Identity connections was either a lie, or his research was about as good as the research he did for his Myth of Separation book. Had he actually attempted to gain information about Peters in 1991 he would have found that:


"Peters and his church first came to national attention in 1985 when Colorado newspapers reported that several members of The Order, the most violent far-right terrorist group of the 1980s, had attended the LaPorte Church of Christ during their criminal heyday. Subsequent investigation into The Order's activities revealed a string of firebombings, armed robberies, counterfeiting and the execution of one of their own members suspected of disloyalty. In 1987 two members of The Order were convicted and sentenced to prison terms of 150 years in connection with the murder in June 1984 of Alan Berg, a Jewish talk-show host in Denver. Several months earlier, in February 1984, Peters, along with Jack Mohr, appeared on Berg's program and Berg angrily confronted the two men about their white supremacist views"



www.adl.org/Learn/ext_us/Peters.asp?LEAR...

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 7:18PM #14
dblad
Posts: 1,881

Jul 18, 2009 -- 5:54PM, TPaine wrote:


It's obvious that Barton's claim that he didn't know Peters had Christian Identity connections was either a lie, or his research was about as good as the research he did for his Myth of Separation book. Had he actually attempted to gain information about Peters in 1991 he would have found that:





I agree. He has already been proven to be a lier. It is a shame how many people choose to believe a lie rather than the truth.


 

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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 12:05PM #15
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Jul 18, 2009 -- 7:18PM, dblad wrote:



I agree. He has already been proven to be a lier. It is a shame how many people choose to believe a lie rather than the truth.




I'd kind of like to meet some of the people who still believe some of the quotes even Barton admits were false. I have some oceanfront property in West Virginia I'm looking to sell.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 3:13PM #16
dblad
Posts: 1,881

Jul 19, 2009 -- 12:05PM, TPaine wrote:


I'd kind of like to meet some of the people who still believe some of the quotes even Barton admits were false. I have some oceanfront property in West Virginia I'm looking to sell.




The vast majority of scientists accept Evolution as fact... Yet the religious right and others continue to teach and believe that is a lie. They choose to beileve a lie; they want to teach others their lie; they want to surpress the truth. WHY ? Because of people like Barton. THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


I'm sure TPaine, if you just look next door or down the street, you will meet some of the people who still believe Barton; a shame, but true.


So get our your FSBO sign... Laughing


 

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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 3:39PM #17
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Jul 19, 2009 -- 3:13PM, dblad wrote:


The vast majority of scientists accept Evolution as fact... Yet the religious right and others continue to teach and believe that is a lie. They choose to beileve a lie; they want to teach others their lie; they want to surpress the truth. WHY ? Because of people like Barton. THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


I'm sure TPaine, if you just look next door or down the street, you will meet some of the people who still believe Barton; a shame, but true.




What bothers me is that the Christian Reich has stolen the deistic concept of intelligent design, and warped it into their ludicrous creationist beliefs. I realize they did this as a way to force their biblical concepts into public school science classes, but it still slanders the beliefs of Deists.


I don't have to look down the street. My sister-in-law and her husband belong to the late Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 7:49PM #18
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Jul 19, 2009 -- 12:05PM, TPaine wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 7:18PM, dblad wrote:



I agree. He has already been proven to be a lier. It is a shame how many people choose to believe a lie rather than the truth.




I'd kind of like to meet some of the people who still believe some of the quotes even Barton admits were false. I have some oceanfront property in West Virginia I'm looking to sell.



  I'm pretty sure you have already met one-in-christ.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 7:51PM #19
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Jul 18, 2009 -- 7:18PM, dblad wrote:


Jul 18, 2009 -- 5:54PM, TPaine wrote:


It's obvious that Barton's claim that he didn't know Peters had Christian Identity connections was either a lie, or his research was about as good as the research he did for his Myth of Separation book. Had he actually attempted to gain information about Peters in 1991 he would have found that:





I agree. He has already been proven to be a lier. It is a shame how many people choose to believe a lie rather than the truth.


 




 


I don't look at Barton as a liar; just a very slick Republicn organizer.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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8 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 10:07PM #20
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Barton -- liar? Or "slick Republican organizer"?


Is there a difference? A stinkweed by any other name....

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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