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5 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 8:08AM #11
klm
Posts: 520

Jul 9, 2009 -- 7:37PM, spudette wrote:


I agree with Sincerly. The mark of the beast will have to do with the way a person thinks about God (in the forehead, meaning in the mind, and/or the way a person acts (in the hand denoting actions). You see, having faith in God is not merely believing that God exists, but also accepting His standard of behavior and living your life accordingly.




This is something to think about.   I always thought it would be something concrete and never thought to see it as written above.  Mind and actions, I'll have to mull this over.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 4:52PM #12
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

It is my belief that this is an particular and unforgivable  sin.


 Wrong thinking and wrong action is of course forgivable.


The Book of Revelation indicates that recieving the "mark" is irreversable and unforgivable.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2009 - 12:05AM #13
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jul 10, 2009 -- 4:52PM, Roodog wrote:


It is my belief that this is an particular and unforgivable  sin.


 Wrong thinking and wrong action is of course forgivable.


The Book of Revelation indicates that recieving the "mark" is irreversable and unforgivable.





Roodog,  Rev.7 indicates a "sealing of God's people", Now in Rev.13 we have a "scene change" and we see those who are "receiving the Mark  of the Beast". You noticed that both were in their "foreheads". Remember John was told to write---therefore, the vast details he had to present was like Moses did in recording the creation story-- and out-line and then details in areas. All activity will culminate with the Rev.22:11 proclamation, "Holy--Holy still"; "Unrighteous----Unrighteous still". That is why there is NOW a call to "Come out of her my people". That Beast power doesn't have to power to enforce the "Mark" at this time. But it appears to be very soon.  So Yes, it will be a choice and that choice will be "irreversible" since one will be aware of the alternatives and still chooses to receive the "Mark" rather than the "Seal".(an act of defiance---not ignorance.)

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2009 - 3:35PM #14
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sincerely,


This goes beyond Sunday church or eating bacon. I could attend church on Saturday evening at my church if I had scruples about Sunday sevices and I could cut ham, bacon and shrimp out of my diet if I were convinced the kosher laws applied to gentile Christians.


The mark of the beast is an oath of fealty, which is both deliberate and irrevokable, to the "beast" as god instead of God. There is no repentance nor forgiveness for this sin.


The preposition used in the passage concerning the mark is "in" not "on" in the original language. Tattoos are actually engraved into the flesh and was forbidden in the Torah, where , I do not know offhand. The notion of microchips is a recent development like the technology itself. I pray to God that I will be dead by the time it is fully revealed.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2009 - 5:24PM #15
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jul 28, 2009 -- 3:35PM, Roodog wrote:


Sincerely,


This goes beyond Sunday church or eating bacon. I could attend church on Saturday evening at my church if I had scruples about Sunday sevices and I could cut ham, bacon and shrimp out of my diet if I were convinced the kosher laws applied to gentile Christians.


The mark of the beast is an oath of fealty, which is both deliberate and irrevokable, to the "beast" as god instead of God. There is no repentance nor forgiveness for this sin.


The preposition used in the passage concerning the mark is "in" not "on" in the original language. Tattoos are actually engraved into the flesh and was forbidden in the Torah, where , I do not know offhand. The notion of microchips is a recent development like the technology itself. I pray to God that I will be dead by the time it is fully revealed.





Roodog, True, It goes to the violated Principle for the placement of the "Mark". Since the very first -----even in heaven------ it was "OBEDIENCE".(Submission; Compliance) in LOVE which was the requirement for "life".


Eve didn't violate her scruples when she determined in her mind that  the "fruit" was "good for food, pleasant to the eyes,  and a tree desired to make one wise".     She replaced God's correct thought in her mind with the suggested scruples of Satan.


Let's look at this statement of agreement---you wrote: ""'The mark of the beast is an oath of fealty, which is both deliberate and irrevocable, to the "beast" as god instead of God."""


That "loyalty oath" in connection to the Revelation statement which comes about at a specific time in the affairs of theological prophecy.  It has not been something which was from A.D. 90.  Just as the "sealing of God's People" will precede it. Since both classifications of peoples have made "deliberate and irrevocable " choices in their "loyalties",  John's writing, 22:11-12, is well understood. "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."


Let's look at God's "fealty oath", Ex.31:13-18, "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you."


Roodog,  GOD'S TRUE people(not "professors of being HIS") will have the Laws of GOD written in their "Minds" and hearts as they accept the "Everlasting Gospel".  Those with the Blood of Jesus covering them will have no problem when the decrees to "be holy still" or "buy nor sell------kill them" is pronounced.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2009 - 8:16PM #16
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sincerely,


I think that your understanding of the passage in question is,shall I say, creative?


 Revelation 13 is pretty plain about the Mark of the Beast as a means of financial control being tied to overt idolatry.


 I don't see how it could be anything else.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 04, 2009 - 7:04PM #17
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Aug 3, 2009 -- 8:16PM, Roodog wrote:


Sincerely,


I think that your understanding of the passage in question is,shall I say, creative?


 Revelation 13 is pretty plain about the Mark of the Beast as a means of financial control being tied to overt idolatry.


 I don't see how it could be anything else.





Roodog,  Not "creative", but real.  Look again,  What is GOD concerned with "financial control" OR WORSHIP????   13:4, 12, 15. "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?....And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.........And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


Having one's finances/means of livelyhood frozen is a powerful incentive to reject the WORSHIP OF GOD for a false worship.  Remember the "dark ages"??  vs. 12,"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 05, 2009 - 12:36AM #18
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

If you are talking about the Catholic Church, they were supposed to be kaput in 1799 according to the 1260 day/year interpretation put forth by SDA teachers. Is the Vatican kaput? NO, not yet . 1799 was when the French took Pius VI prisoner only to have France face defeat in 1815. Pius VII returned to Rome with more respect and prestige than the Vatican had in the previous 50 years. We are going to have to wait some time before the institutions that are called the Church are done away with.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 05, 2009 - 7:06PM #19
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Aug 5, 2009 -- 12:36AM, Roodog wrote:


If you are talking about the Catholic Church, they were supposed to be kaput in 1799 according to the 1260 day/year interpretation put forth by SDA teachers. Is the Vatican kaput? NO, not yet . 1799 was when the French took Pius VI prisoner only to have France face defeat in 1815. Pius VII returned to Rome with more respect and prestige than the Vatican had in the previous 50 years. We are going to have to wait some time before the institutions that are called the Church are done away with.





Roodog, You must have missed the part of that vs. of the prophecy. Yes, received a deadly wound---BUT WAS HEALED; AND ALL THE WORLD WONDERED AFTER THE BEAST." JUST AS YOU ACKNOWLEDGE.


Rev. 18 deals with the destruction of the "institutions".   By that time, GOD's True people will have left their association with her and her daughters. That will occur just prior the our Lord's return.    I personally can't see that time as being much longer.  But this is getting away from the topic.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2009 - 12:18PM #20
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

The 1260 day speaks of the reign of the antichrist before the Lord comes and destroys him. It speaks of the Great Tribulation. This is not a prophecy of the Papacy. If anything, Rev. 17 includes the Papacy but is not limited to it. The false church is shut down by the antichrist government, not God.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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