|7 years ago :: Nov 14, 2008 - 2:16AM #11|
[QUOTE=PassingTheTest;869524] Hi AC,
Like I said we agreed that at times Satan can refer to a person... Which mean not all the time, like you Peter example pointed out.
Therefore I stated the following:
The IDEA here is that IF we can agree that SATAN refers to a person at times, let's take a closer look at those times.
Balaam is a holy angel? Maybe a prophet gone bad as Peter denotes in the following:
So it cannot be like Balaam who was a man hence the mentioning of his father Bosor...
"this ADVERSARY is LIKELY a Holy angel..."? Boy and you think i am reaching with God's "very good" not being perfect... :D
Let's take a closer look...
We both agree that this is a single individual - you say a single Holy angel, I only say a single spirit being for now, but a single being nonetheless...
So we have two points in agreement:
- Satan can be a person at times[/quote]
Incorrect. Satan means any adversary and is never a proper name for any thing.
So your Satan can't be anything.
The Biblical Satan is always an adversary but never your alleged Satan evil spirit being because it doesn't literally exist.
- In Job, Satan specifically refers to an individual spirit based entity.
- Satan is listed separately from the "sons of God" in Job 1:6 and 2:1...
If Satan is not one of the "sons of God" then who is left?[/quote]
An adversary that came amongst the sons of God.
Then I think you are not looking close enough...
How is Zechariah seeing this vision? Is Satan a non-person here?
Whether it is said Ho Satan or Ho Adversary, means nothing here... We see Peter referred to by 2 names in the NT. Does that mean there is not a liter Peter? Of course not... It just depends on whether we are in the Greek or Hebrew toungue.
I think you are missing some words here... Is Jude one to delve into a book of Jewish myths? Again this is circumstancial evidence and not primary evidence like Job and Zechariah...
I think we can stick with what we have so far with Job and Zechariah...
You wrote quite a bit above and stated it with lots of authority... But the bottom line in your whole argument is you think it is "likely" that Satan refers to a Holy angel in Job...
Because the specific identity of the adversary in job is not given except we know it was not an evil spirit being for the many reasons already given plus an evil spirit being doesn't literally exist for the following reason -
1. For the wages of sin [is] death; . . . (Rom. 6:23) KJV
2. ALL spirit angels never die (Luke 20:36) KJV (Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; . . . .)
If you can never die, then you can never sin (Cyclic reasoning)
If some "think / claim" that there are a total of TWO classes consisting of - 1. heavenly and 2. ex-heavenly angels, and therefore some (i.e. class 2.) are somehow NOT God's angels any longer, then please provide evidence to substantiate that claim. For clearly ALL things belong to God at ALL times, without exception
Result: No Satan spirit being, No devil spirit being / No fallen heavenly angels / No literal spirit demons etc. etc.
Job never attributed his afflictions to a rebel angel. His declaration was simply: "The hand of God hath touched me". (Job 19:21 cf. 2:10). Even Job's brethren, sisters and acquaintances acknowledged that the evil was brought upon Job by the LORD: "they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him." (Job 42:11). (WRESTED SCRIPTURES)
|6 years ago :: May 04, 2009 - 7:49PM #12|
Satan is a metaphor for the Ego, which each one of has. Buth the idea of Satan as an external being is just an attempt to duck the personal responsibility for our own actions.
|6 years ago :: Dec 26, 2009 - 11:13PM #13|
If this is so, what is the purpose of Revelation 12:9 where it states:
"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."
This verse explicitly says there is "one" called Devil and Satan who is misleading the inhabited earth. Doesn't this text demand that there be a physical being who literally is Satan, not just a "metaphor"?