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Switch to Forum Live View Judge Halts "I Believe" Plates
6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 1:42PM #1
dblad
Posts: 1,684
Here we go again on religious license plates



Judge halts ‘I Believe’ plates

They amount to state-sponsored religious preference, he rules

By RODDIE BURRIS


A federal judge Thursday ordered South Carolina to freeze plans to produce a special “I Believe” license plate, refund motorists who have prepaid for the plates and direct them to make a different selection.

The plates, designed by the Department of Motor Vehicles, bearing a gold cross and a stained-glass window with the words “I Believe” across the top, amount to state-sponsored religious preference, U.S. District Judge Cameron McGowan Currie ruled in Columbia.



Source: http://www.thestate.com/politics/story/618428.html?RSS=general_news
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 1:51PM #2
sydneymoon
Posts: 3,680
thank goodness.
Folks can customize AND PAY EXTRA for their very own plates.
Otherwise the state needs to stay out of the business of producing religious material.
SC never extended the same offer to Wiccans, Pagans, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists, etc. These folks have to pay a premium for the same services rendered to we Christians.
Not cool.
Margaret Mead: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:16PM #3
TPaine
Posts: 9,339
It appears that the establishment clause won this round. One belief system can't be favored by the state over others. This is not a Christian Nation, nor has it ever been. Freedom of or from religion was considered important enough by our Founding Fathers to list first along with speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition government for redress of grievances in the first of the ten amendments that make up our Bill of Rights.

Let's keep it that way!

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:33PM #4
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

TPaine wrote:

It appears that the establishment clause won this round. One belief system can't be favored by the state over others. This is not a Christian Nation, nor has it ever been. Freedom of or from religion was considered important enough by our Founding Fathers to list first along with speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition government for redress of grievances in the first of the ten amendments that make up our Bill of Rights.


Let's keep it that way!




I actually think this was more of an equal protection argument-the others did have access to similar messages-I still don't vanity plates with Xian messages per se violated the 1 st Amendment; but it doesn't trouble that the court ruled this way

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:49PM #5
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

davelaw40 wrote:

I actually think this was more of an equal protection argument-the others did have access to similar messages-I still don't vanity plates with Xian messages per se violated the 1 st Amendment; but it doesn't trouble that the court ruled this way



The last time I checked the SC DMV site the only plate available with a religious message was the Christian I Believe one. No Star of David, no Muslim Star and Crescent, no Wiccan Pentagram, etc. were there. That doesn't tell you that the state favors one religion?

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:51PM #6
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
But if they can raise money by charging extra for these plates... Who cares what someone else puts on their car?  No one said they HAVE to.  AND Fundies will cough up a couple hundred bucks a year to scream their crap from their car.
It's like Ohio charging 80 bucks a year (that's what it was 2 years ago anyway) for the license plate with the lighthouse on it.
It's not like they're saying everyone MUST have this plate.  Why all the fuss?  Who cares?
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:52PM #7
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

TPaine wrote:

The last time I checked the SC DMV site the only plate available with a religious message was the Christian I Believe one. No Star of David, no Muslim Star and Crescent, no Wiccan Pentagram, etc. were there. That doesn't tell you that the state supports only one religion?



in terms of lack of access to equal protection of the laws-yes

I think the Court was attempting to avoid being appealed higher-

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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:52PM #8
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
[QUOTE=TPaine;954459]The last time I checked the SC DMV site the only plate available with a religious message was the Christian I Believe one. No Star of David, no Muslim Star and Crescent, no Wiccan Pentagram, etc. were there. That doesn't tell you that the state favors one religion?[/QUOTE]

No, it tells me that the others, unlike fundie xians, are smart enough to NOT want to piss money away on a few stupid words on a stupid license plate.
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 3:54PM #9
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Tmarie64 wrote:

No, it tells me that the others, unlike fundie xians, are smart enough to NOT want to piss money away on a few stupid words on a stupid license plate.




Bumper stickers are cheaper

edit-maybe I should sell a  I don't believe and I vote sticker-I bet Paine would buy one from me-then i could tithe of of the sale-LOL

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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 4:02PM #10
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

davelaw40 wrote:

Bumper stickers are cheaper



And they raise no church/state issues

davelaw40 wrote:

edit-maybe I should sell a  I don't believe and I vote sticker-I bet Paine would buy one from me-then i could tithe of of the sale-LOL


LOL! :) Actually, mine reads, "God gave us reason, not religion."

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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