El & Baalism rather than Dagonic Baalism seems to be rather dystheistic and maltheist. They ignored the supreme god EL to worship Baal, and considered El the enemy of humanity. this parallels Enlil of Babylon, sender of the flood, God of the Jews etc.
El & Baalism rather than Dagonic Baalism seems to be rather dystheistic and maltheist. They ignored the supreme god EL to worship Baal, and considered El the enemy of humanity. this parallels Enlil of Babylon, sender of the flood, God of the Jews etc.
so there we have it!
Baalism is often quite Maltheistic to EL!
clever aren't I?[/QUOTE]
OK, you're clever. :-)
I'm not sure the phrasing "Maltheistic to EL" sounds quite right, but I get your point. It should be no surprise that there were people in ancient times that recognized the negative nature of God. But trading one deity for another is not an answer to the problem. As far as we have been able to tell, God IS the entity behind all the different names he uses, even the ones in supposed "combat" with each other. So Baal is also God, telling the ones who follow him using the name Baal to hate the ones who follow him using the names El, Adonai, Yehovah, etc. and vice versa. God thrives on fomenting cross-cultural violence. It is the one thing we ought to learn from history.
There is a theory that the Jews knew God was evil and were doing what they could to placate him. This knowledge was lost over time (perhaps preserved in deeper secret lore like the Kabbalah?) and Jews and the religions that sprung from Judaism still erroneously believe God is good.
My point though is that trading one deity for another is bogus. Is there a Satan who's a hero in contrast to God's being a villain? Or would following a Satan, or a Baal, mean just falling into another one of God's slick traps and feeding his frenzied lust for discord?
Has anyone read Bart Ehrman's new book, God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question - Why We Suffer?
"But trading one deity for another is not an answer to the problem. As far as we have been able to tell, God IS the entity behind all the different names he uses, even the ones in supposed "combat" with each other. So Baal is also God, telling the ones who follow him using the name Baal to hate the ones who follow him using the names El, Adonai, Yehovah, etc. and vice versa. God thrives on fomenting cross-cultural violence. It is the one thing we ought to learn from history."
Good but you express monotheistic or monist/pantheistic thinking and not ancient polytheistic thinking. To a Hindu of mystic-monotheist EL/God is the all and only, but not to the ancients. They had different gods and goddesses some of whom were in competition. This allowed swapping gods but upset the bad priest/esshoods
"There is a theory that the Jews knew God was evil and were doing what they could to placate him. This knowledge was lost over time (perhaps preserved in deeper secret lore like the Kabbalah?) and Jews and the religions that sprung from Judaism still erroneously believe God is good."
The ancient deities could be evil, like Kali or Dugra or Hera. The Jews adopted EL along with Yahweh. That was their call.
"My point though is that trading one deity for another is bogus. Is there a Satan who's a hero in contrast to God's being a villain? Or would following a Satan, or a Baal, mean just falling into another one of God's slick traps and feeding his frenzied lust for discord?"
It is not bogus to a polytheist and maybe not to a hindu either, so it could be valid to a mystic monotheist who prefers one form to another.
Satan gets a mention by the Jews as God's henchmen, a prosecuter of the good (Job) for being pious. Satan gets God's permission to slaughter Jobs innocent family for the Divine Entertainment but it avails Satan nothing. Better the celestial court has an easily manipulated fool for a king then a psychopathic homicidal shark who will slaughter the loyal? In this Satanism is a heresy - it is as much of the cult of EL as Jesus or Moses was!
So Satanism is a slick trap of God's evil, but the Baals are another matter usually. They operate in a third dimension along with the Gods and Ashtaroth Goddesses , and older pagan polythiest dimension which has been largely lost in the cult domination by the cults of EL.
"But trading one deity for another is not an answer to the problem. As far as we have been able to tell, God IS the entity behind all the different names he uses, even the ones in supposed "combat" with each other. So Baal is also God, telling the ones who follow him using the name Baal to hate the ones who follow him using the names El, Adonai, Yehovah, etc. and vice versa. God thrives on fomenting cross-cultural violence. It is the one thing we ought to learn from history."
Good but you express monotheistic or monist/pantheistic thinking and not ancient polytheistic thinking. To a Hindu of mystic-monotheist EL/God is the all and only, but not to the ancients. They had different gods and goddesses some of whom were in competition. This allowed swapping gods but upset the bad priest/esshoods
"There is a theory that the Jews knew God was evil and were doing what they could to placate him. This knowledge was lost over time (perhaps preserved in deeper secret lore like the Kabbalah?) and Jews and the religions that sprung from Judaism still erroneously believe God is good."
The ancient deities could be evil, like Kali or Dugra or Hera. The Jews adopted EL along with Yahweh. That was their call.
"My point though is that trading one deity for another is bogus. Is there a Satan who's a hero in contrast to God's being a villain? Or would following a Satan, or a Baal, mean just falling into another one of God's slick traps and feeding his frenzied lust for discord?"
It is not bogus to a polytheist and maybe not to a hindu either, so it could be valid to a mystic monotheist who prefers one form to another.
Satan gets a mention by the Jews as God's henchmen, a prosecuter of the good (Job) for being pious. Satan gets God's permission to slaughter Jobs innocent family for the Divine Entertainment but it avails Satan nothing. Better the celestial court has an easily manipulated fool for a king then a psychopathic homicidal shark who will slaughter the loyal? In this Satanism is a heresy - it is as much of the cult of EL as Jesus or Moses was!
So Satanism is a slick trap of God's evil, but the Baals are another matter usually. They operate in a third dimension along with the Gods and Ashtaroth Goddesses , and older pagan polythiest dimension which has been largely lost in the cult domination by the cults of EL.
Sorry, AshtarothKarnim. What you describe is trading in one God for another. We have no need of that. The point of Maltheism is not that "there is a big bad supreme deity, but maybe if we worship one of the other deities they will fight against the monster too." And what do we have at the end of that fight? Another bully in charge? I'm not a polytheist, but what you describe is just taking sides in a political squabble. Meet the new God, same as the old God. No thanks. We're not looking for alternative Gods to worship. We're looking to see the need or desire to worship any God at all disappear from the face of the earth.
Sorry, AshtarothKarnim. What you describe is trading in one God for another. We have no need of that. The point of Maltheism is not that "there is a big bad supreme deity, but maybe if we worship one of the other deities they will fight against the monster too." And what do we have at the end of that fight? Another bully in charge? I'm not a polytheist, but what you describe is just taking sides in a political squabble. Meet the new God, same as the old God. No thanks. We're not looking for alternative Gods to worship. We're looking to see the need or desire to worship any God at all disappear from the face of the earth.
