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Switch to Forum Live View Did Jesus take God's wrath?
5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2008 - 9:39AM #31
greenponder
greenponder
Posts: 1,395
Butterflynews you posted this in "What is the Vineyard Movement?"
Greenponder, are you still with us?
Perhaps my use of the term 'pompous' wasn't the best description. Limited Atonement seems... oh goodness.. what's the word.. Anyway, it's difficult for me to comprehend how God would allow multi-millions, perhaps billions of people, who haven't heard, as well as those who are confined to mental health facilities for the rest of their lives, end up in the lake of fire. If you would, what are some Scriptural references where people are doomed if they don't believe in Jesus in the here and now? (especially with the two examples that I cited) I appreciate it, thanks.
As far as people who have diminished mental capacity, I haven’t found anything in the Bible that addresses that question directly but I believe God will deal mercifully with them.
As far as the billions of people you refer to read Romans 1:18-32. How do you interpret that? On the other hand it is not my place to judge (See Romans 2:1-4). I’ll leave the judging in God’s hands.
As far as believing in Jesus in the here and now:
John14:16 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
My question for you is, do you believe everyone will be saved?
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2008 - 1:48AM #32
butterflynews11
butterflynews11
Posts: 545
Hi Greenponder!
I'll respond to your post during the week, hopefully tomorrow.

Quickly, so as not to keep you wondering, I'm not a Universalist but consider myself close to it because the Bible does say that there will be those who will be cast into the lake of fire. :^(

Also, I'm a Christian who happens to be an environmentalist who loves and worships God but doesn't worship his creation.
Here's a wonderful book that you might want to check out called 'How to Rescue the Earth Without Worshipping Nature' by Tony Campolo, http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Without-Wo … 0840777728

The Vineyard has conservative values but the focus tends to be more on Worship and power evangelism through missionary work and planting churches.

I'll elaborate on these things later, gator.

See ya!
Yvette
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 4:36PM #33
butterflynews11
butterflynews11
Posts: 545
Hi Pete,
That's really the gist of my beliefs pertaining to those two specifics in the first and second paragraph.

I'm a 'Vineyardite' and agree with most of Vineyard's teachings, especially Worship as being the highest priority. Worship is the highest form of spiritual warfare.
And in demonstratiion of the Holy Spirit, we move in Power and Love (Power Evangelism) and do the works of the Father and spread the good news of Jesus Christ.

Have a great day!
With Love,
Yvette
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2008 - 5:27PM #34
mebo6pak
mebo6pak
Posts: 2
Hey everyone,

I happened to be researching for an upcoming Bible study and stumbled across this forum.  Please take a look at a few quick verses that indicate that Jesus did indeed take God's wrath upon Him.  John 3:36 and Romans 5:9.

Thanks.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2008 - 7:56PM #35
greenponder
greenponder
Posts: 1,395
Mebo6pak
The following verses may be helpful in your study:
Isaiah 53:4-12, Matthew 27:45, Luke 22:42, Romans 8:3-4, Hebrews 2:9, 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10, Galatians 3:13, 2 Corinthians 5:21
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2008 - 11:07AM #36
mebo6pak
mebo6pak
Posts: 2
Thanks Greenponder!
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