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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 3:07AM #1
etsryan
Posts: 1,640
I had no idea about this did you?  on the website are links to more things mentioned in this article...and a lot more things I didn't know about.  Could this have something to do with concerns about autism and vaccines??

this is from  www.cogforlife.org

The Campaign For Ethical Vaccines Demands An End to Aborted Fetal Cell Lines In Our Medical Products

To Date Over 600,000 Have Joined In The US Alone


Has anyone told you they didn't believe we could possibly have vaccines produced right here in America from aborted fetal cell lines?  Did anyone tell you it was a hoax?  Children of God for Life gives you the full truth and the resources you need to prove it!

The fact that the Chickenpox, Hepatitis-A and MMR vaccines were developed using aborted fetal cell lines, MRC-5 and WI-38 has never been hidden from the public.  The problem is that when parents go to their family doctors for vaccinations, who asks to see the product insert?   Most parents want to know the risks and possible side effects.  Like their doctors, parents are mostly concerned with the health of their children.   And doctors, who have been administering the vaccines for years have never checked into the ingredients, although it has always been right at their fingertips.  And what would happen if they did?  They would read that the vaccine contains "residual DNA and proteins" and "components" of "MRC-5", "WI-38" (or both) "human diploid cell lines".

But that statement alone does not mean "aborted fetal tissue".  Diploid cells are defined as "having twice the number of chromosomes normally occurring in a mature germ cell".  Deceptive footwork on the part of the pharmaceutical companies; legal, without disclosing what would have surely led to a public outcry and a demand for immediate change.

Next, most doctors have at their disposal a book called a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference).  The same information, listing the WI-38 and MRC-5 cell lines can be found there as well.

But what happens when the information still does not prove that MRC-5 or WI-38 are aborted fetal cell lines?  There are several references to document this including a few which are listed below.  But finding the resource material yourself can be time consuming and cumbersome.  Taken from the Coriell Cell Repository, a company that actually sells fetal (and other) tissue cell lines, is a complete scientific description of the cell lines and the information on the original abortions:

MRC-5  Aborted Fetal Cell Line        WI-38 Aborted Fetal Cell Line

More Aborted Fetal Cell Lines Used in Products and Product Testing

PER C6        IMR-90 and IMR-91        HEK-293

Physicians In the Know

In addition, the Catholic Medical Association has a written resolution, to provide vaccines not derived from aborted fetal tissue where alternatives exist and supporting our effort to demand changes for those not offering any other source.  The Catholic Medical Association and the American Association of Pro-Life Pediatricians have put their stamp of approval on our Campaign.  They would certainly not risk their reputation on a frivolous effort that had no scientific evidence to back it!  Read their latest statement.

In addition, the Christian Medical Association has issued their own statement on aborted fetal vaccines.

In Their Own Words

Read one of the letters Merck has written in response to our request that they cease and desist!

Or how about this from Merck's own website?  http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_cir … _ii_pi.pdf
Under the Description in the opening paragraph, note the reference to Footnote 1,2. Scroll down to page 9 and read the first footnote under References.

The Church

Do you think the Vatican would lie about such a thing?

The Facts

Or if you would like to read an in-depth article detailing the history of the abortions, the cell lines used and new ones under development -
and the direct involvement by the pharmaceutical industry

In addition, we have provided information from some of these references for those who would have no way of accessing this information otherwise.  Here are some excerpts from medical journals which provided specifics about the cell cultures for the Rubella vaccine:

Gamma Globulin Prophylaxis; Inactivated Rubella Virus; Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines ; Amer J Dis Child Vol 118 Aug 1969

Dr. K McCarthy: It seems to me that there are two things that we worry about in regards to WI-38 cell substrate. First of all, presence of extraneous viral agents; secondly, the possibility of there being human genetic material passed over into the vaccine. I wonder if there is any information about the reasons for aborting that particular embryo that gave rise to WI-38; and if it was from a family, whether we have any information about siblings from the family and whether they are normal?

Dr.S Plotkin, Philadelphia: I should like to answer Dr. McCarthy's question. This fetus was chosen by Dr. Sven Gard, specifically for this purpose. Both parents are known, and unfortunately for the story, they are married to each other, still alive and well, and living in Stockholm, presumably. The abortion was done because they felt they had too many children. There were no familial diseases in the history of either parent, and no history of cancer specifically in the families; I believe this answers Dr. McCarthy's question.

Attenuation Of RA 27/3 Rubella Virus in WI-38 Human Diploid Cells; Amer J Dis Child vol 118 Aug 1969

Explant cultures were made of the dissected organs of a particular fetus aborted because of rubella, the 27th in our series of fetuses aborted during the 1964 epidemic. The third explant, which happened to be from kidney, was selected arbitrarily for further study.

Studies of Immunization With Living Rubella Virus ; Arch J Dis Child vol 110 Oct 1965

"This fetus was from a 25-year-old mother exposed to rubella 8 days after last menstrual period. 16 days later she developed rubella. The fetus was surgically aborted 17 days after maternal illness and dissected immediately. Explants from several organs were cultured and successful cell growth was achieved from lung, skin, and kidney. It was then grown on WI-38. This new vaccine was tested on orphans in Philadelphia".

Further references:

Center for Disease Control:  http://www.cdc.gov
In the search engine, type the name of vaccine you wish to access.  Children of God for Life has already printed these documents, taken from the MMWR (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports), which are documented by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services and are quite lengthy.  If you need specific copies, please contact us for help.

Text References:

*Hayflick, Mortality and Immortality at the Cellular Level: A review, University of California, San Francisco, August, 1997

* L. Hayflick and P.S. Moorhead, The Serial Cultivation of Human Diploid Cell Strains, Experimental Cell Research 25, 585-621, 1961

* L. Hayflick, The Limited In Vitro Lifetime of Human Diploid Cell Strains, Experimental Cell Reserch, 37, 611-636, 1965

*New England Journal of Medicine; Rubella in Children, Pediatrics, 1965, 1976, 1980

*Jacobs, Nature 277:168 (1970), Characteristics of a human diploid cell designated MRC-5.

*Vaccines, Third Edition, W. B. Saunders Company, Stanley Plotkin, M.D., Table 17-5 Est. Morbidity Assoc. with Rubella Epid.1964-65;

*Nature Vol. 227 July 11 1970 Characteristics of a Human Diploid Cell

*Hayflick, Exp Cell Res 37:614-36, 1965

*American Journal Diseases of Children; Virus Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines, Vol. 118 Aug 1969

*American Journal of Disease of Childhood, Attenuation of RA27/3 Rubella Virus in WI-38 Human Diploid Cells, Plotkin, Stanley, et. al., 118:178-185, 1969

*American Journal of Diseases of Children, vol. 118, August 1969, G. Sven, S. Plotkin and K. McCarthy, Gamma Globulin Prophylaxis; Inactivated Rubella Virus; Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines, 

*American Journal Diseases of Children; Studies of Immunization With Living Rubella Virus, Vol. 110 Oct 1965

*Plotkin, S.A. Development of R/A/27/3 attenuated rubella virus grown in WI-38 cells, International Symposium on Rubella Vaccines, London, 1968; Symp. Series Immunobiology Standard., vol. 11, pp. 249-260 (Karger, Basel/New York 1969).

*Hoskins, J.M. and Plotkin, S.A. Behaviour of rubella virus in human diploid cell strains, Growth of Virus, Archiv f Virusforschung, Bd. 21, H. 3-4: 283-295 (Received for publication January 16, 1967).

*MMWR 39(RR-15),11/23/90,citing Cochi etal, Am J Epidem 129: 349-361,1989).

*Centers for Disease Control, Varicella:  Morbidity & Mortality Reports: (Vol. 45/No.RR-11)
Risen Lord Jesus' Peace!
e.t./sue ><:> *:D (: + 
Yesh!  www.muttscomics.com
www.chesterton.org
American Chesterton Society Conference-usually in St Paul, MN Mid-June, but the 2009 Conference is scheduled Aug. 6-8 in Seattle, WA - you go, West Coast...
Some of what Gilbert K. Chesterton says:
"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."
"I agree with the realistic Irishman who said he preferred to prophesy after the event."  (Happy St. Patrick's Day!)
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
"War is not 'the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you."
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."
"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God."
"Men are ruled, at this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern."
"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative."
"You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have a revolution."
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter."
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."
"There are some desires that are not desirable."
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."
"Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it."
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man."
"You cannot grow a beard in a moment of passion."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 6:43AM #2
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
OOOOOOHHHH...  Th Catholics came up with crap against abortions!!  Surprise...!
The Vatican LIED about rapists... The vatican LIED about hiding them!
Why WOULDN"T the vatican lie about this?

Come on!  Show something from an unbiased source.  Not anti-abortion sites.

I suppose now that the vatican is going to advocate NOT vaccinating our children???  It'd be just like them... After all THEY don't have to watch the children suffer.  It's just THEIR job to make sure we keep squirtin'em out.
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 7:19AM #3
etsryan
Posts: 1,640
[QUOTE=Tmarie64;932698]OOOOOOHHHH...  Th Catholics came up with crap against abortions!!  Surprise...!
The Vatican LIED about rapists... The vatican LIED about hiding them!
Why WOULDN"T the vatican lie about this?

Come on!  Show something from an unbiased source.  Not anti-abortion sites.

I suppose now that the vatican is going to advocate NOT vaccinating our children???  It'd be just like them... After all THEY don't have to watch the children suffer.  It's just THEIR job to make sure we keep squirtin'em out.[/QUOTE]

you know how some folks don't want to ingest milk with bovine growth hormone in it or eat food from cloned animals?  the food industry labels such things so consumers can choose which kind they like.  Aborted fetus free vaccines may be an option some/most people prefer and they might like to know that that is what they are getting rather than junior's cannibalized body parts.

i am entitled to my bias and to post stuff that i prefer.  post your own biased stuff.  stop bashing mine.  as far as i know this is not a vatican website that I got the info from.  this is a debate board where all views are welcome.  except those that are bashing religion itself because that stuff belongs on the religion debate boards.

1) bashing religion isn't okay
2) using the term anti abortion isn't okay
3) what does this post of yours have to do with vaccines using aborted fetuses and patients being given the vaccines without being informed about this  (in other words, most everything in this post of yours is off topic and violating ROC and i guess may be deleted)

i guess your view of the church/vatican/religion and mine are two different things...eh? 
here's a napkin so you can wipe the foam off your mouth.  i think it's dripping on you.
Risen Lord Jesus' Peace!
e.t./sue ><:> *:D (: + 
Yesh!  www.muttscomics.com
www.chesterton.org
American Chesterton Society Conference-usually in St Paul, MN Mid-June, but the 2009 Conference is scheduled Aug. 6-8 in Seattle, WA - you go, West Coast...
Some of what Gilbert K. Chesterton says:
"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."
"I agree with the realistic Irishman who said he preferred to prophesy after the event."  (Happy St. Patrick's Day!)
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
"War is not 'the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you."
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."
"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God."
"Men are ruled, at this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern."
"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative."
"You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have a revolution."
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter."
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."
"There are some desires that are not desirable."
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."
"Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it."
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man."
"You cannot grow a beard in a moment of passion."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 10:13AM #4
cendawan
Posts: 18
Whether or not your sources are accurate, I have no problem with cells from abortions being used for vaccines.  They were going to go to waste anyway.  Why not contribute to the health of those who are living?
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 10:25AM #5
pIrish
Posts: 181

cendawan wrote:

Whether or not your sources are accurate, I have no problem with cells from abortions being used for vaccines.  They were going to go to waste anyway.  Why not contribute to the health of those who are living?


I agree wholeheartedly. I'd rather see them go to something good to help improve the lives of others than be thrown in the dumpster out back.

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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 10:58AM #6
DGMelby
Posts: 970
I'll add my vote for a more neutral source of information.

For example, having read a bit from that site, it seems to me that COG makes no distinction between embryotic stem cell lines, created from dontated fertilized eggs created as a part of IVF that would've been destroyed anyways, and "aborted fetuses."  It also seems to me that when they claim vaccines were "made from aborted fetuses," what they really mean is that during development, it was tested on human cells obtained from ESC lines before moving on to trials on actual human beings.

But it does not strain credulity that embryotic or fetal tissue obtained through abortions might be used for medical purposes, rather than simply being destroyed.  I don't have a huge issue with this, because it means that some good might come out of the procedure.  At least it means even though a life was lost, others would be saved.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 12:21PM #7
mountain_man
Posts: 39,075
[QUOTE=etsryan;932602]I had no idea about this did you?  on the website are links to more things mentioned in this article...and a lot more things I didn't know about.  Could this have something to do with concerns about autism and vaccines??...[/QUOTE]
Autism has no connection to any kind of vaccine. That there is no connection has been proven beyond a doubt. Those that go along with the hysteria and do not vaccinate; their kids have the same rate of autism as the rest of the population. There has been a tremendous growth of autism lately, but that's because they redefined it into a "spectrum" and now covers over half the population. The word "autism" has become so nebulous that it defines everything and nothing at the same time.

As for vaccines coming from fetal cell lines; well... that's just good science and good medicine. No one is aborting on purpose just to produce cell lines or vaccines.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 6:11PM #8
Sailorlal79
Posts: 1,365
This whole anti-vaccine movement is really dangerous and unsupported by science.  People in our time don't understand how terrible infectious disease can be, evidently. Do we really want to bring back small pox?

As long as abortion is legal, there will be aborted fetuses. Why would we not get some good out of the situation and help make vaccines or cure diseases?
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 7:24PM #9
etsryan
Posts: 1,640
[QUOTE=mountain_man;933300]Autism has no connection to any kind of vaccine. That there is no connection has been proven beyond a doubt. Those that go along with the hysteria and do not vaccinate; their kids have the same rate of autism as the rest of the population. There has been a tremendous growth of autism lately, but that's because they redefined it into a "spectrum" and now covers over half the population. The word "autism" has become so nebulous that it defines everything and nothing at the same time.

As for vaccines coming from fetal cell lines; well... that's just good science and good medicine. No one is aborting on purpose just to produce cell lines or vaccines.[/QUOTE]

I believe different people have different ideas of what constitutes "good science" and "good medicine".  Where are you getting your information about "no one is _________".  How can that possibly be known unless you are all seeing/all knowing. 

in one of the articles it did say that a woman was impregnated for the very reason of harvesting her fetus for vaccine research.  I believe it said she had the illness they were working on the vaccine for.

Some of us would rather not have these type of vaccines injected into us.  Some of us would just as soon see all z/e/fs buried as human beings with respect. 

I thought the preservative in some vaccines was causing problems for some kids and possibly triggering cognitive difficulties.

So now the business of z/e/fs as commodities begins/continues.  Brave new world.  Some of us would prefer not to participate.  Mind if we opt out please?  My/our CHOICE?
Risen Lord Jesus' Peace!
e.t./sue ><:> *:D (: + 
Yesh!  www.muttscomics.com
www.chesterton.org
American Chesterton Society Conference-usually in St Paul, MN Mid-June, but the 2009 Conference is scheduled Aug. 6-8 in Seattle, WA - you go, West Coast...
Some of what Gilbert K. Chesterton says:
"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."
"I agree with the realistic Irishman who said he preferred to prophesy after the event."  (Happy St. Patrick's Day!)
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
"War is not 'the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you."
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."
"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God."
"Men are ruled, at this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern."
"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative."
"You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have a revolution."
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter."
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."
"There are some desires that are not desirable."
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."
"Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it."
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man."
"You cannot grow a beard in a moment of passion."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 7:26PM #10
etsryan
Posts: 1,640
[QUOTE=Sailorlal79;933965]This whole anti-vaccine movement is really dangerous and unsupported by science.  People in our time don't understand how terrible infectious disease can be, evidently. Do we really want to bring back small pox?

As long as abortion is legal, there will be aborted fetuses. Why would we not get some good out of the situation and help make vaccines or cure diseases?[/QUOTE]

I believe this type of thinking was rationalized in Nazi Germany at one time also.

Adds insult to injury to me.  Injury being death by abortion.  Insult being no proper burial and having others use/consume your body parts/flesh.
Risen Lord Jesus' Peace!
e.t./sue ><:> *:D (: + 
Yesh!  www.muttscomics.com
www.chesterton.org
American Chesterton Society Conference-usually in St Paul, MN Mid-June, but the 2009 Conference is scheduled Aug. 6-8 in Seattle, WA - you go, West Coast...
Some of what Gilbert K. Chesterton says:
"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."
"I agree with the realistic Irishman who said he preferred to prophesy after the event."  (Happy St. Patrick's Day!)
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
"War is not 'the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you."
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."
"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God."
"Men are ruled, at this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern."
"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative."
"You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have a revolution."
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter."
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."
"There are some desires that are not desirable."
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."
"Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it."
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man."
"You cannot grow a beard in a moment of passion."
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