After reading this thread, I have to ask what the point is in "changing religions" as frequently as one changes one's underclothes.
Do you actually believe in any of the various deities you worship, rider, or do you just pick up what seems interesting one day, then something else the next? Is it all just a game to you?
How many of those various deities have given commandments to their followers to destroy those who would leave their religion? Do you think this means it's OK with them for you to bounce from cult to cult, like a rabbit on crack?
Is "Unitarian Universalist" actually synonymous with "dilettante"?
A couple of things, mainly for the last two posters:
First, this sort of dabbling is not characteristic of UUism. The UUA (uua.org) has a very specific covenant that all of our congregations follow. I suggest you read it before making generalizations about Unitarian Universalism.
Second, pretty much all of what is mentioned in this thread has been non-theistic; that is to say, Matthew, they're not worshiping any G-ds (as far as I can tell, anyway). That is true for many UUs, but just as many do believe in a higher power, whatever they call Him/Her/It. There are even folks who worship Jesus Christ, just like you. That may seem strange to you, but read over the Principals again. Or, be brave and go to your local UU church. I think that you'll get a sense of how we worship together, even if you don't agree with it. And just because you disagree with it, doesn't mean it's any less a religion than yours.
Third, it seems to me that both of you (Matthew and Jack) are calling for genocide--the destruction of an entire culture of people (the non-Christians), right? Do you mean that? If you don't, I honestly have no idea why you put those quotes (Jack) and sentiments about killing non-Christians in your post. If the purpose was to scare someone, well, I don't think that you're going to get anywhere. And if you're actually serious about it, well, go find some other website. And if you're just trying to look like assholes, mission accomplished. You may have had an original point, but it was completely lost. Blessings, Lexa
Lexa, I appreciate your polite and thoughtful response. Others posting on this forum could take a lesson or two from you!
[QUOTE=lexa_blue;242107]A couple of things, mainly for the last two posters:
First, this sort of dabbling is not characteristic of UUism. The UUA (uua.org) has a very specific covenant that all of our congregations follow. I suggest you read it before making generalizations about Unitarian Universalism.
Lexa, may I then ask if what is posted on this forum (not this thread, but beliefnet in general) in the UU section is representative of UU? I see this dabbling across the board.
If it is not what UUs would consider appropriate, why is nobody saying so (besides you)?
Second, pretty much all of what is mentioned in this thread has been non-theistic; that is to say, Matthew, they're not worshiping any G-ds (as far as I can tell, anyway).
Perhaps we read different posts. I read things like this:
bob2]On alternate days I can be atheist, agnostic, vaguely Hindu Buddhist Taoist, radical Christian, or Pagan
Now, Hinduism, Christianity, and Paganism all have gods, last time I checked. wrote:
On alternate days I can be atheist, agnostic, vaguely Hindu Buddhist Taoist, radical Christian, or Pagan [/quote]
Now, Hinduism, Christianity, and Paganism all have gods, last time I checked. The OP flits about from religion to religion left and right, even more than bob2. So, my question to him and to bob2 still stands: Do they believe in any of these deities, or is this all a game to them?
That is true for many UUs, but just as many do believe in a higher power, whatever they call Him/Her/It. There are even folks who worship Jesus Christ, just like you. That may seem strange to you, but read over the Principals again. Or, be brave and go to your local UU church. I think that you'll get a sense of how we worship together, even if you don't agree with it. And just because you disagree with it, doesn't mean it's any less a religion than yours.
My agreement or disagreement is not relevant to me. God's approval is the only one which matters to me; how do people who claim to worship God and Jesus turn around and ignore vast swaths of God's Word? How is that worship? A worship of convenience?
I really don't understand the mindset, Lexa. To me, it's like saying that you love and deeply respect America, while cheating on your taxes, smuggling drugs, and selling national security secrets to Iran. If you love and respect America, you behave in a way which indicates that love and respect, including following her laws. If you love and respect God, you follow His laws.
Do UUs have a different concept of worship, love, and respect? I really think I'm missing something here.
Third, it seems to me that both of you (Matthew and Jack) are calling for genocide--the destruction of an entire culture of people (the non-Christians), right? Do you mean that?
Lexa, if you review my post again, you will see that I asked questions about dilettantism. I never called for genocide of anyone, or punishments of any sort. Please do not put words in my mouth and accuse me of espousing intolerant and violent viewpoints.
If you don't, I honestly have no idea why you put those quotes (Jack) and sentiments about killing non-Christians in your post. If the purpose was to scare someone, well, I don't think that you're going to get anywhere. And if you're actually serious about it, well, go find some other website. And if you're just trying to look like assholes, mission accomplished. You may have had an original point, but it was completely lost.
I see you have learned some lessons from other posters instead, Lexa. Perhaps I should take back my compliment at the beginning of this post. Your vulgarity and personal insults are not appropriate and are uncalled for . . . how does such behavior relate to the UU principles you prize? Is that the sort of behavior BeliefNet permits in its Terms of Service?
Yes, I certainly see your point as to the "switching religions" issue. Personally, I do not think that doing such is actually possible with the frequency they describe. Being a true religious adherent requires both practice and belief. Yes, these people might have practiced to an extent, but I doubt that any other adherents would dignify the lable. I think that we can probably both agree that going to church does not a Christian make--just as driving into a garage does not a car make. Hence, my disbelief as far as the previous posters are concerned. As for belief, I cannot speak for them--although I would certainly be interested in what they had to say as far as belief in these deities is concerned. My postulation (and it is only that) is that they did not in fact believe in these many G-ds, and were merely espousing the philosophies of these various religions.
As for the type of worship that we devote to G-d, there is certainly disagreement there. For instance, I am an observant Jew. We (you and I, not necessarily all of us on this thread) worship the same G-d, yes? But I bet we do it very differently. Is either of us wrong? Well, that's a debate I rarely get into, because as far as I am concerned, that issue is between me and G-d, not me and you (and I mean that with all due respect). Now, you refer to G-d's "Word." I think you mean the Bible, yes? UUs, even those who worship Jesus Christ, do not believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of G-d. Therefore, they do not follow the same comandments as you. Are they wrong? I don't know. And, when we really get down to it, you don't know either. There is only One Who knows--and that is neither you nor I.
I appoligize for misrepresenting your attitude--I did doubt that you were actually here to learn, and wrongly so. Please forgive me. But when I see quotes like you and Jack posted, I tend to prepare for the worst--I learn from experience, and from the experiences of my Jewish ancestors. Thank you for your intelligent and thorough response.
Jack, you did confuse me. I failed to notice your link to Landover Baptist--that certainly would have clued me in:). As I said, when I see fundamentalist Christian rhetoric, I tend to grab my machete before I really determine what I'm looking at. So, I appoligize--and don't get too sensible on us.
I agree with you--they are a threat. I am happy to see that, as far as I can tell, Matthew is not one of them.
After reading this thread, I have to ask what the point is in "changing religions" as frequently as one changes one's underclothes.
Since you ask in that manner, then you're unlikely ever to accept, no matter what we might say, any reasons for why it is an essential part of our faith that each person may not only believe whatever resonates most with hir but may change those beliefs when they no longer are meaningful.
Do you actually believe in any of the various deities you worship...or do you just pick up what seems interesting one day, then something else the next? Is it all just a game to you?
How is it any of your business what UU's believe, Matthew? Or have you simply donned the Stetson of "Beliefs Sheriff" and set out to impose upon everyone else what YOU think they should believe?
Do you think this means it's OK with them [deities] for you to bounce from cult to cult, like a rabbit on crack?
Is "Unitarian Universalist" actually synonymous with "dilettante"?
I'm definitely going to rush right out to convert to a religion represented by such gracious, polite and charming behavior as that evidenced in the wording of these questions.
"Dilettante" and "a rabbit on crack"? How dare you!
Is "Unitarian Universalist" actually synonymous with "dilettante"?
Yes, it undoubtedly is from your point of view.
I don't feel the least bit obliged to defend what I believe or why to you. We have dramatically different religious convictions. I disagree with yours as you so obviously do with mine. And I can assure you that belittling my beliefs is hardly likely to persuade me that yours make you a more moral, kinder and on the whole better person than I am.
After reading this thread, I have to ask what the point is in "changing religions" as frequently as one changes one's underclothes.
Do you actually believe in any of the various deities...Is it all just a game to you?
...you...bounce from cult to cult, like a rabbit on crack?
Is "Unitarian Universalist" actually synonymous with "dilettante"?
One-eyed Jack wrote:
Do you guys actually believe anything, or is it all just a wild merry-go-round of sloppy superstition and silliness?
Unitarian Universalism is undoubtedly reprehensible from your respective viewpoints.
I don't feel the least bit obliged to defend what I believe or why to you. We have dramatically different convictions. I disagree with yours as you so obviously do with mine. And I can assure you that denigrating my beliefs as you both have done here is hardly likely to persuade me that yours make you a better person than I am.
Goodness, this got long. My apologies in advance to those who fall asleep.
One-eyed Jack wrote:
They do not sleep. They are real as a preacher calling for holy war. They are awake in America.
That was written by an American pastor in 1982. He was talking about denying religious freedom to all non-Christians.
"World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less."
That was written by George Grant in 1987. George Grant is a friend and collaborator of Mike Huckabee's. The great religions have men in the high places. They lay their plans. Their game is power.
You guys just go ahead and play your Universalist games. Go ahead and play with incense and crystals and feng-shui. The real religions, the serious religions -- they are sharpening their scythes.
Jack, I may not agree with much of what you write, but these quotes do paint a fairly accurate picture.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, though I see you are. In my eyes, it's good to see that large numbers of Americans are supporting Christian Reconstructionism, as you pointed out in your sarcastic and rather rude manner.
lexa_blue wrote:
Yes, I certainly see your point as to the "switching religions" issue. Personally, I do not think that doing such is actually possible with the frequency they describe. Being a true religious adherent requires both practice and belief.
I agree.
Yes, these people might have practiced to an extent, but I doubt that any other adherents would dignify the label. I think that we can probably both agree that going to church does not a Christian make--just as driving into a garage does not a car make. Hence, my disbelief as far as the previous posters are concerned. As for belief, I cannot speak for them--although I would certainly be interested in what they had to say as far as belief in these deities is concerned. My postulation (and it is only that) is that they did not in fact believe in these many G-ds, and were merely espousing the philosophies of these various religions.
I would suspect the same, and agree wholeheartedly with the church/garage analogy.
As for the type of worship that we devote to G-d, there is certainly disagreement there. For instance, I am an observant Jew. We (you and I, not necessarily all of us on this thread) worship the same G-d, yes? But I bet we do it very differently. Is either of us wrong? Well, that's a debate I rarely get into, because as far as I am concerned, that issue is between me and G-d, not me and you (and I mean that with all due respect). Now, you refer to G-d's "Word." I think you mean the Bible, yes? UUs, even those who worship Jesus Christ, do not believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of G-d. Therefore, they do not follow the same comandments as you. Are they wrong? I don't know. And, when we really get down to it, you don't know either. There is only One Who knows--and that is neither you nor I.
That's why I base my answer to that question on the one Book we have to go by.
Honestly, what else is there? Going on our own imaginings?
I may not like everything in the Bible, but that doesn't give me the right to ignore those parts, does it? Some say yes, that does give that right; that's fine for those who believe that the Bible is simply a collection of stories written by men. If that's what one believes, though, then is not the entire Bible (and therefore God, Jesus, and the Resurrection, Heaven, and Hell, Creation and afterlife) ALL called into question, and therefore invalid?
If parts of the Bible -- God's Word -- are not valid, then must it all not be valid? That's the viewpoint I come from. If it is not all valid, then there is no point in calling oneself Christian.
I apologize for misrepresenting your attitude--I did doubt that you were actually here to learn, and wrongly so. Please forgive me. But when I see quotes like you and Jack posted, I tend to prepare for the worst--I learn from experience, and from the experiences of my Jewish ancestors. Thank you for your intelligent and thorough response.
Thank you. And I apologize for being rude in response; it was inappropriate behavior on my part, and I sincerely regret it.
I'm glad to see we have some common ground!
DotNotInOz wrote:
Unitarian Universalism is undoubtedly reprehensible from your respective viewpoints.
I don't feel the least bit obliged to defend what I believe or why to you. We have dramatically different convictions. I disagree with yours as you so obviously do with mine. And I can assure you that denigrating my beliefs as you both have done here is hardly likely to persuade me that yours make you a better person than I am.
Dot, I do not believe that anyone has demanded that you defend anything. I asked questions, having read the thread from which this was moved (along with several others), and seeing a great deal of dilettantism in the people posting here on BeliefNet. You leapt in to defend the "helpless" early posters from the "evil Christian dude".
Since you feel your beliefs have been denigrated, shall I assume you feel that the term "dilettante" applies to you?
Also, do you often assume that anyone who disagrees with you is trying to assert that he or she is "a better person" than you? I don't believe myself to be better than anyone; we're all worthless sinners in God's eyes.
