Important Announcement

See here for an important message regarding the community which has become a read-only site as of October 31.

 
Post Reply
Page 4 of 6  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Religion or Philosophy?
9 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2009 - 11:55PM #31
koala972
Posts: 879

Mar 16, 2009 -- 2:58PM, Nancygreen wrote:


I have recently discovered the Tao...and find it very clean, clear and beautiful. I thought I might join some posts, but I can see that it may be the same as with Christianity and other systems that human beings are involved with...they mess it up and make the truth of it muddy and legalistic. How to keep it pure and yet discuss from a clear perspective.  




 


I haven't figured that out.  From a purist point of view the phrasing 'those who speak don't know those who know don't speak' rings very true for reasons the Tao Te Ching states over and over...  but people aren't satisfied with that because they want to communicate with each other.  Unfortunately when you communicate with others you are brought to whatever the common denominator between the two of you is, and also unfortunately for most the common denominator is the known secular and/or religious worlds people generally inhabit.  People catch a glimpse of something deep but can't escape the known because others won't go with them and they refuse to go alone...


I suppose the trick would be finding someone who is at your own level of understanding to communicate with, so that both sides would be comfortable in the communication.  And ditch everyone else...  but I don't know how to do that.


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2009 - 8:13AM #32
Leonette
Posts: 26

Mar 16, 2009 -- 2:58PM, Nancygreen wrote:


I have recently discovered the Tao...and find it very clean, clear and beautiful. I thought I might join some posts, but I can see that it may be the same as with Christianity and other systems that human beings are involved with...they mess it up and make the truth of it muddy and legalistic. How to keep it pure and yet discuss from a clear perspective.  




I think the way to keep it pure it to keep things simple. Don't get carried away in the little bits and pieces. Look at the bigger picture.


Also, look at each discussion as a learning experience. Even if you do not agree with the things being discussed, you can learn things about yourself by your thoughts and reactions to a discussion. I don't necessarily walk away from a discussion with a new opinion on my beliefs, but I do walk away with a better sense of my self and my own beliefs.


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2009 - 8:17AM #33
Leonette
Posts: 26

Feb 15, 2009 -- 8:34PM, eteune wrote:

I would have to disagree that Chi Gung and Daoist meditation are religious. You can practice these in many Chinese martial arts schools (the good ones!) without any belief in God or the supernatural at all. But, yes, Daoism is something to practice, to experience to really understand. But religious belief is not necessary to practice.



I think that the religious aspect comes from the individual practicing. It comes from the thoughts, feelings and intentions of the individual, not of the practice itself.

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2009 - 8:22AM #34
Leonette
Posts: 26

Mar 17, 2009 -- 8:17AM, Leonette wrote:


Feb 15, 2009 -- 8:34PM, eteune wrote:

I would have to disagree that Chi Gung and Daoist meditation are religious. You can practice these in many Chinese martial arts schools (the good ones!) without any belief in God or the supernatural at all. But, yes, Daoism is something to practice, to experience to really understand. But religious belief is not necessary to practice.



I think that the religious aspect comes from the individual practicing. It comes from the thoughts, feelings and intentions of the individual, not of the practice itself.




After reading my own post, I think it may actually apply to the bigger discussion of Religion versus Philosophy and not just meditation.


The line that moves something from philosophy to religion is the intent of the individual. If you just think, "hey, that's a great way of looking at things" then it's probably just a philosophy to you. If you look at it in a spiritual way, as a way of life, something you're dedicating yourself to, then it's probably a religion.


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2009 - 8:24AM #35
Leonette
Posts: 26

Dec 31, 1969 -- 6:00PM, Jarrod R wrote:

Look outside your window. Look at your family. Look at your pets. Look at your neighbors. Look at the seasons ... etc, etc. Look all around you and within you. That's the Tao. The attempt to get connected to that in it's natural flow along some sort of path is what I think of when I think of Taoism. Call it a religion, a philosophy, a cult, a whatever ... doesn't really matter. Keep the labels off and keep focused on the natural principles as you flow along the path.



Yup, pretty much :)


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2009 - 4:08PM #36
Uncleev
Posts: 1

I agree that it doesn't much matter whether you call it a religion or not, the Tao still


functions under any title. But, in my opinion, a religion is simply the


system or language through which a person might choose to interface with the unknown.


Whether or not a philosophical outlook includes a belief in, or communication with, a


diety or dieties, I feel that a person's way of relating to the cycles of existence, and especially the


inevitability of death, would be that person's religion.

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2009 - 5:33PM #37
Nancygreen
Posts: 5

Thank you for your words! Very good ones. You are right Leonette. I think sometimes we try to find something that "works" instead of just accepting what is...as it is. You are also very correct that we need to find people that we can also relate to on our own level. That is what I am working on finding. Not really on my own level, but that one can communicate with. I do think in all system of belief we impose certain "rules" on ourselves to follow our path. I think the issue becomes a problem when others start to impose their beliefs or practices on someone else. However, you made me realize that others find their path when they try to impose and meet resistance, so that is part of their learning and path that I should not take from them or try to stop. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2009 - 5:41PM #38
Nancygreen
Posts: 5

Mar 16, 2009 -- 2:58PM, Nancygreen wrote:


From a purist point of view the phrasing 'those who speak don't know those who know don't speak' rings very true for reasons the Tao Te Ching states over and over.




 


Perhaps this is speaking of the same concept in the bible that says, not to cast our pearls before swine. It is not that we don't "speak" (or that people are "swine") but we keep silent when it is going to be a waste of effort. I understand from this also that sometimes we should just do the opposite of what we think we "should" do. 


So many words of truth were written metaphorically and possibly because each of us must find our own path. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2009 - 3:21PM #39
Tealady
Posts: 3

Feb 28, 2009 -- 10:19AM, Wake2sleep wrote:


BTW, sure Taoism has Masters and it's a good way to learn, but a Master doesn't lead you thru the gate to God.  The Master shows you the gate, but you must ultimately pass thru yourself......


......So, because most Westerners can't comprehend how a search for God could possibly take place outside of some organization of high learners, the question of is Toaism a philisophy or a religion frequently comes up even though it's not important to the Taoists!




I believe once you explain what it is, it is no longer what it is.


 A good teacher (Master) will lead you to the gate but you need to find your own way through.


I cannot comment on what a true Taoist would say, or what an Easterner vs Westerner would say...but I can tell you what I feel and I feel that what ever you call , religion or philosphy it is a moot point....it is the way. 


 


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 years ago  ::  May 02, 2009 - 3:37PM #40
kbsjhd
Posts: 6

Daoism is a mystical, pragmatic philosophy. No, it is not. Yes, it is. Read poem#1 in the Dao de Jing. We cannot define the Dao, so we probably cannot define Daoism, except experientially. Very Zen, for obvious reasons.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 4 of 6  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook